Topic: Auto Tech: All-Weather Tires

[Rupert]

The results are what they are. Insults won't change them. Higher percentage of deaths in incidents. Higher speeds do you think? Maybe not so but it can be a conclusion.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The results are what they are. Insults won't change them. Higher percentage of deaths in incidents. Higher speeds do you think? Maybe not so but it can be a conclusion.

I know you're not stupid, so this has to be chalked up to wilful ignorance. It's been explained why you can't take a snapshot in time and compare accident rates in different jurisdictions and come to any sort of meaningful conclusion on one factor in isolation. It's possible that Quebecois drive faster, take more risks, drive drunk more, or drive cars with less accident protection, or one of any other different reasons.

What you can say is the fatality rate in Quebec was higher than Ontario's prior to winter tire legislation. Quebec's fatality rate decreased after the winter tire legislation came into effect, but it still remains higher than that in Ontario.

[JohnM]

The NB fatalities per km is almost double that of Quebec. 

I think the before and after tire legislation stats are the most important particularly if there is a distinct decrease the next year after.  long term, all accident injury and fatality rates are falling.

Cheers,
John M.

[Rupert]

   I think that it is reasonable to ask the question...'do dedicated snow/winter tires reduce the incidence of winter traffic accidents and injuries or do they merely enable more speed to be carried by vehicles resulting in accidents of a higher injury level if and when they do occur'.
   One would think that those responsible for any legislation on this topic would need to study the road safety aspects of decisions made considering the large amount of resources required to produce and citizen expenditure to afford a mandated winter tire outcome. Those who have looked at the Transport Canada Casualty rates over the years will have seen, like myself, that Ontario has, by a long way, better statistics than pretty well all other provinces and, similar to PQ, the incidence rate is trending down.
   Unfortunately the casualty rate data is on an annual basis...not segregated into summer and winter. So it is diluted by other season data.
   It seems to me that the All Weather tire...which is the subject of this thread...might be a decent single tire outcome for semi-northern climates, that would be bypassed by mandating a narrow window offering.
   
   

[pi314]

   I think that it is reasonable to ask the question...'do dedicated snow/winter tires reduce the incidence of winter traffic accidents and injuries or do they merely enable more speed to be carried by vehicles resulting in accidents of a higher injury level if and when they do occur'.
   One would think that those responsible for any legislation on this topic would need to study the road safety aspects of decisions made considering the large amount of resources required to produce and citizen expenditure to afford a mandated winter tire outcome. Those who have looked at the Transport Canada Casualty rates over the years will have seen, like myself, that Ontario has, by a long way, better statistics than pretty well all other provinces and similar to PQ the incidence rate is trending down.
   Unfortunately the casualty rates are on an annual basis...not segregated into summer and winter. So they are diluted by other season data.
   It seems to me that the All Weather tire...which is the subject of this thread...might be a decent single tire outcome for northern climates, that would be bypassed by mandating a narrow window offering.
   
 

Fair questions - I think you're placing too much emphasis on the "feeling safer/enabling higher speeds" aspect.

http://www.wheels.ca/news/its-official-winter-tires-really-do-cut-collisions/

After the law received royal assent, winter-tire use increased to 98 per cent — meaning there was a 5-per-cent drop in collisions after just a 2-per-cent increase in winter-tire use. Deaths and serious injuries declined by 3 per cent.

3% decrease in death and serious injury for a minimal cost (MAYBE ~$100/yr over the life of a car)

[pi314]

Some more data around the results of Quebec's legislation.


http://conf.tac-atc.ca/english/resourcecentre/readingroom/conference/conf2010/docs/k2/fournier-e.pdf

In light of the fact that, prior to 2008, approximately 10% of passenger vehicles were
equipped with all-season tires in winter, but these vehicles were involved in more than one third
of all accidents, the goal of the measure was to improve road safety, and consequently,
the road safety record.

the decrease in the number of accident victims throughout Québec was more
significant during the period when the use of winter tires was mandatory (16% as compared
to 11%). This represents a net improvement of 5%, which means that the measure spared
597 people from being accident victims in 2008–2009

[Rupert]

   The data is un-reliable. It does not indicate weather the AST shod vehicles were responsible for the incidents when other vehicles were involved...from what I recall anyway. They may have been hit by a vehicle on snows. Even the percentages vary from quote to quote.

[bensonc]

I just don't think we have an argument here about usage of winter tire.
I mean, for those who think winter tire is too expensive, then they will have repair, raise in insurance, or getting stuck during snow day and thats what the price they pay.   

I have witnessed a BMW 330xi try to run red light.  It have no problem pick up speed but then a left turning car start turning.   That BMW just spin out and hit the traffic light post with good speed in front of me into the opposite lane .  If it have snow tire... I think the result would be very different.   

[Rupert]

Sounds like driving lessons would be a better investment.

[sjrw11]

We can argue back and forth, but the fact is that winter tires give you better control in cold weather.

It took legislation to get seat belts in all cars. When people wouldn't use them we got legislation for air bags. Then legislation for door braces. These add costs to vehicles. If we legislate winter tires, perhaps we should legislate that every vehicle sold should be sold with a set of winter tires on rims. Changing tires ruins tire beads and increases the chance of leaks and tire failures.

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced. Canadian Tire has 0% interest with twelve equal payments. I cannot afford this, but I will pay for them. I pick up my Grandchildren every second weekend for their sleepover. Anyone care to put a price on them?

Have a great day, everyone!

[Fobroader]

I have seen so many cars these past few days almost go through intersections, not being able to merge/turn left/get away from a light or just simply slide right off the road. Would driving lessons help, abso-freaking-lutely, are they a feasible idea, absolutely not, it would involve putting phones down and not being a slack jawed idiot, not happening. Would winter tires help these people, oh yeah, I think it would at least bolster their lack of driving skills. This whole "it lulls you into a false sense of security" line is BS, they actually do perform a hell of a lot better in conditions where all seasons would lay down and cry.

[Schmengie]

We can argue back and forth, but the fact is that winter tires give you better control in cold weather.

It took legislation to get seat belts in all cars. When people wouldn't use them we got legislation for air bags. Then legislation for door braces. These add costs to vehicles. If we legislate winter tires, perhaps we should legislate that every vehicle sold should be sold with a set of winter tires on rims. Changing tires ruins tire beads and increases the chance of leaks and tire failures.

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced. Canadian Tire has 0% interest with twelve equal payments. I cannot afford this, but I will pay for them. I pick up my Grandchildren every second weekend for their sleepover. Anyone care to put a price on them?

Have a great day, everyone!

 
This is the most intelligent and thoughtful comment yet on this thread. My situation is almost identical to yours sjrw11, and there's no, repeat NO way I'd ever compromise my family's safety by not using winter tires - REAL winter tires. Mine are on dedicated rims as well and if looked after reasonably well they can last long enough to make the up-front costs negligible. Along with the unquestionable safety benefits, I don't know what better argument there is.

[blur911]

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced.

Shop around for TPM sensors, they can often be found for a fraction of the cost dealers charge.

[Fobroader]

We can argue back and forth, but the fact is that winter tires give you better control in cold weather.

It took legislation to get seat belts in all cars. When people wouldn't use them we got legislation for air bags. Then legislation for door braces. These add costs to vehicles. If we legislate winter tires, perhaps we should legislate that every vehicle sold should be sold with a set of winter tires on rims. Changing tires ruins tire beads and increases the chance of leaks and tire failures.

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced. Canadian Tire has 0% interest with twelve equal payments. I cannot afford this, but I will pay for them. I pick up my Grandchildren every second weekend for their sleepover. Anyone care to put a price on them?

Have a great day, everyone!

Very well put. I have said this for ages, here in the prairies it should mandatory for every new vehicle to come with a full set of winter wheels/tires/sensors when you purchase it. The TPMS sensors, I know that they are mandatory, but really, why the f$%k are they so expensive, $20-30/a tire, ok, whatever, $60, 80 or $100/tire, WTF, they made with essence of unicorn??

[OliverD]

We can argue back and forth, but the fact is that winter tires give you better control in cold weather.

It took legislation to get seat belts in all cars. When people wouldn't use them we got legislation for air bags. Then legislation for door braces. These add costs to vehicles. If we legislate winter tires, perhaps we should legislate that every vehicle sold should be sold with a set of winter tires on rims. Changing tires ruins tire beads and increases the chance of leaks and tire failures.

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced. Canadian Tire has 0% interest with twelve equal payments. I cannot afford this, but I will pay for them. I pick up my Grandchildren every second weekend for their sleepover. Anyone care to put a price on them?

Have a great day, everyone!

Very well put. I have said this for ages, here in the prairies it should mandatory for every new vehicle to come with a full set of winter wheels/tires/sensors when you purchase it. The TPMS sensors, I know that they are mandatory, but really, why the f$%k are they so expensive, $20-30/a tire, ok, whatever, $60, 80 or $100/tire, WTF, they made with essence of unicorn??

But what if someone buys something they don't plan to drive in the winter? I'm okay with mandating the use of winter tires but forcing the cost on people who may or may not use them is ridiculous.

[Fobroader]

We can argue back and forth, but the fact is that winter tires give you better control in cold weather.

It took legislation to get seat belts in all cars. When people wouldn't use them we got legislation for air bags. Then legislation for door braces. These add costs to vehicles. If we legislate winter tires, perhaps we should legislate that every vehicle sold should be sold with a set of winter tires on rims. Changing tires ruins tire beads and increases the chance of leaks and tire failures.

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced. Canadian Tire has 0% interest with twelve equal payments. I cannot afford this, but I will pay for them. I pick up my Grandchildren every second weekend for their sleepover. Anyone care to put a price on them?

Have a great day, everyone!

Very well put. I have said this for ages, here in the prairies it should mandatory for every new vehicle to come with a full set of winter wheels/tires/sensors when you purchase it. The TPMS sensors, I know that they are mandatory, but really, why the f$%k are they so expensive, $20-30/a tire, ok, whatever, $60, 80 or $100/tire, WTF, they made with essence of unicorn??

But what if someone buys something they don't plan to drive in the winter? I'm okay with mandating the use of winter tires but forcing the cost on people who may or may not use them is ridiculous.

I know what you mean, but the thing is if you give people any kind of out, "Oh Im never going to use this car in the winter", they will take that and we will have a lot of schmucks skating around on all seasons.

[blur911]

We can argue back and forth, but the fact is that winter tires give you better control in cold weather.

It took legislation to get seat belts in all cars. When people wouldn't use them we got legislation for air bags. Then legislation for door braces. These add costs to vehicles. If we legislate winter tires, perhaps we should legislate that every vehicle sold should be sold with a set of winter tires on rims. Changing tires ruins tire beads and increases the chance of leaks and tire failures.

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced. Canadian Tire has 0% interest with twelve equal payments. I cannot afford this, but I will pay for them. I pick up my Grandchildren every second weekend for their sleepover. Anyone care to put a price on them?

Have a great day, everyone!

Very well put. I have said this for ages, here in the prairies it should mandatory for every new vehicle to come with a full set of winter wheels/tires/sensors when you purchase it. The TPMS sensors, I know that they are mandatory, but really, why the f$%k are they so expensive, $20-30/a tire, ok, whatever, $60, 80 or $100/tire, WTF, they made with essence of unicorn??

But what if someone buys something they don't plan to drive in the winter? I'm okay with mandating the use of winter tires but forcing the cost on people who may or may not use them is ridiculous.

I know what you mean, but the thing is if you give people any kind of out, "Oh Im never going to use this car in the winter", they will take that and we will have a lot of schmucks skating around on all seasons.

Can you'd be required to buy a set of winter tires for say, a new Corvette, that'll be $3 or $4k for tires and wheels  that'll never be used while the car is in storage for the winter.  Would you require them for used cars too?

I'd just stick to a rule similar to Quebec's, winter tires required during winter.

[Fobroader]

We can argue back and forth, but the fact is that winter tires give you better control in cold weather.

It took legislation to get seat belts in all cars. When people wouldn't use them we got legislation for air bags. Then legislation for door braces. These add costs to vehicles. If we legislate winter tires, perhaps we should legislate that every vehicle sold should be sold with a set of winter tires on rims. Changing tires ruins tire beads and increases the chance of leaks and tire failures.

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced. Canadian Tire has 0% interest with twelve equal payments. I cannot afford this, but I will pay for them. I pick up my Grandchildren every second weekend for their sleepover. Anyone care to put a price on them?

Have a great day, everyone!

Very well put. I have said this for ages, here in the prairies it should mandatory for every new vehicle to come with a full set of winter wheels/tires/sensors when you purchase it. The TPMS sensors, I know that they are mandatory, but really, why the f$%k are they so expensive, $20-30/a tire, ok, whatever, $60, 80 or $100/tire, WTF, they made with essence of unicorn??

But what if someone buys something they don't plan to drive in the winter? I'm okay with mandating the use of winter tires but forcing the cost on people who may or may not use them is ridiculous.

I know what you mean, but the thing is if you give people any kind of out, "Oh Im never going to use this car in the winter", they will take that and we will have a lot of schmucks skating around on all seasons.

Can you'd be required to buy a set of winter tires for say, a new Corvette, that'll be $3 or $4k for tires and wheels  that'll never be used while the car is in storage for the winter.  Would you require them for used cars too?

I'd just stick to a rule similar to Quebec's, winter tires required during winter.

How does that law work, if you are involved in an accident and you don't have winter tires you are at fault?? Unless you have legislation for something like this, then thinking that the cops will check every car is not happening.

[Schmengie]

We can argue back and forth, but the fact is that winter tires give you better control in cold weather.

It took legislation to get seat belts in all cars. When people wouldn't use them we got legislation for air bags. Then legislation for door braces. These add costs to vehicles. If we legislate winter tires, perhaps we should legislate that every vehicle sold should be sold with a set of winter tires on rims. Changing tires ruins tire beads and increases the chance of leaks and tire failures.

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced. Canadian Tire has 0% interest with twelve equal payments. I cannot afford this, but I will pay for them. I pick up my Grandchildren every second weekend for their sleepover. Anyone care to put a price on them?

Have a great day, everyone!

Very well put. I have said this for ages, here in the prairies it should mandatory for every new vehicle to come with a full set of winter wheels/tires/sensors when you purchase it. The TPMS sensors, I know that they are mandatory, but really, why the f$%k are they so expensive, $20-30/a tire, ok, whatever, $60, 80 or $100/tire, WTF, they made with essence of unicorn??

But what if someone buys something they don't plan to drive in the winter? I'm okay with mandating the use of winter tires but forcing the cost on people who may or may not use them is ridiculous.

If you aren't going to drive a vehicle in the winter, park it in your driveway, cancel the insurance and remove the plates. No winter tires required and you'll save on insurance.

[pi314]

We can argue back and forth, but the fact is that winter tires give you better control in cold weather.

It took legislation to get seat belts in all cars. When people wouldn't use them we got legislation for air bags. Then legislation for door braces. These add costs to vehicles. If we legislate winter tires, perhaps we should legislate that every vehicle sold should be sold with a set of winter tires on rims. Changing tires ruins tire beads and increases the chance of leaks and tire failures.

I am retired, on a small income, but I have winter tires on dedicated rims. The highest single cost was the 4 TPM sensors! Total cost for tires, rims, and TPM sensors was $1,200, mounted and balanced. Canadian Tire has 0% interest with twelve equal payments. I cannot afford this, but I will pay for them. I pick up my Grandchildren every second weekend for their sleepover. Anyone care to put a price on them?

Have a great day, everyone!

Very well put. I have said this for ages, here in the prairies it should mandatory for every new vehicle to come with a full set of winter wheels/tires/sensors when you purchase it. The TPMS sensors, I know that they are mandatory, but really, why the f$%k are they so expensive, $20-30/a tire, ok, whatever, $60, 80 or $100/tire, WTF, they made with essence of unicorn??

But what if someone buys something they don't plan to drive in the winter? I'm okay with mandating the use of winter tires but forcing the cost on people who may or may not use them is ridiculous.

I know what you mean, but the thing is if you give people any kind of out, "Oh Im never going to use this car in the winter", they will take that and we will have a lot of schmucks skating around on all seasons.

Can you'd be required to buy a set of winter tires for say, a new Corvette, that'll be $3 or $4k for tires and wheels  that'll never be used while the car is in storage for the winter.  Would you require them for used cars too?

I'd just stick to a rule similar to Quebec's, winter tires required during winter.

How does that law work, if you are involved in an accident and you don't have winter tires you are at fault?? Unless you have legislation for something like this, then thinking that the cops will check every car is not happening.

$300 fine. Not sure if you automatically become at fault, but I'm sure they look at that more carefully since they'll issue a ticket.

The other thing is that QC gives a 7 day exemption for newly purchased cars to get winters, and you can apply for transit permits if you're moving a car as a one-time event