Author Topic: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one  (Read 45295 times)

Offline tpl

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #180 on: November 27, 2014, 09:04:44 am »
Well leasing makes sense for people who've made the choice to change cars often. And GAP coverage generally means you have a fixed cost for the car no matter what happens.

For those two reasons I wouldn't want leasing to be disallowed, though I've yet to lease a car myself.
I wouldn't disallow it, just restrict it to real functioning businesses.  People who want to change cars often can always ensure that they are always above water on their loans...which my 2nd suggestion would help with. Saw an article the other day where even the banks are unhappy with the length of car loans( but they did not suggest that they would stop offering the facility to dealers).
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Offline blotter

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #181 on: November 27, 2014, 11:08:16 am »
Well leasing makes sense for people who've made the choice to change cars often. And GAP coverage generally means you have a fixed cost for the car no matter what happens.

For those two reasons I wouldn't want leasing to be disallowed, though I've yet to lease a car myself.
I wouldn't disallow it, just restrict it to real functioning businesses.  People who want to change cars often can always ensure that they are always above water on their loans...which my 2nd suggestion would help with. Saw an article the other day where even the banks are unhappy with the length of car loans( but they did not suggest that they would stop offering the facility to dealers).

I don't think restricting leasing will change anything when talking about fees (however listed)

Now the long term financing issue...  now that the flood gates are open, it's pretty hard to go back.
You read interviews with various people, the banks claim not to like it, the manufacturers don't like it but everyone is still offering it because it makes everybody money.   It moves the metal.  It helps push the economy.    Even though some people advise against it, they'll do it (some, not all). 

And of course, if people didn't "take advantage" of long term financing, it would stop being offered.
I don't see this ever changing, since the industry will state it's what consumers want. 
Perhaps the answer is a disclosure in contracts people need to sign.   Something like they now put on credit card bills.  (CC bills now say, if you continue to pay the minimum balance, it'll take X years to pay off)
Maybe, something stating that finance term X will take you X amount of years (months) to be above water.

It still wouldn't really change anything, but it would at least stop people from claiming they really didn't realize the full cost / risk of long term financing.   

I know to a degree some sales people will actually warn customers but I'll willing to bet many don't.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #182 on: November 27, 2014, 12:03:56 pm »
I wonder if leasing was restricted to strictly business owned vehicles ( real businesses that is) whether we would not all  be better off.  Perhaps combined with a maximum length of a car loan of 48 months and those loans being a maximum of 95% of value...like mortgages are/were.

Better off from what  ???

Where are all these crazy thoughts coming from?  :)

Offline SaskSpecV

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #183 on: November 27, 2014, 01:03:18 pm »

Now the long term financing issue...  now that the flood gates are open, it's pretty hard to go back.
You read interviews with various people, the banks claim not to like it, the manufacturers don't like it but everyone is still offering it because it makes everybody money.   It moves the metal.  It helps push the economy.   

It makes the MNFRs and banks money....today.  But they all realise that long-term loans are simply pulling future sales earlier - more sales now, but with consumers extended for so long, they are less likely to afford another car in 4 - 5 years.  And that's the best-case scenario - worst case is that people continue to buy a new vehicle every 4-5 years on 8 year loans, just rolling the growing underwater portion of previous loans into each new one.  Auto debt piles up until it reaches the breaking point, and then those consumers are screwed.

Problem for the banks/MNFRs, they know these long-term loans will be a problem in the future but it's hard to unilaterally disarm.  If TD stops 84/96 month loans but RBC doesn't, TD will just lose business to RBC today.  Same goes for the MNFRs.  But I sure hope they've done some long-term risk analysis on this - well, no, actually I don't really care.  Let the banks have a bunch of delinquent loans on their books, or decreased car sales because of over-extended consumers, or consumers who owe $60K on a Cruze because of previous vehicle loans and now can't spend money on anything else.  It'll be a blow to the economy no doubt, but at some point we've got to realise that we can't keep overextending ourselves.  The piper will have to be paid.

Offline tpl

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #184 on: November 27, 2014, 01:39:36 pm »
I wonder if leasing was restricted to strictly business owned vehicles ( real businesses that is) whether we would not all  be better off.  Perhaps combined with a maximum length of a car loan of 48 months and those loans being a maximum of 95% of value...like mortgages are/were.

Better off from what  ???

Where are all these crazy thoughts coming from?  :)

That old fashioned thing. 
"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness.
 Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."

SaskSpecV has it right.   There is no way to "unilaterally disarm"  it needs the equivalent of a Test Ban Treaty....which only governments can do.

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #185 on: November 27, 2014, 02:50:05 pm »
and these long loans also blow up used car prices due to shortage of availability... there is the other edge of the sword i guess...

just had a meeting where i had to speak as a customer... have a great deal on a used truck, but had to show why would anyone buy it when i can get cheaper payments on a brand new one. i would never personally do it, but it really is so easy to sell to the uninformed.  the smart cash buyers keep things moving along buying the used, but once all those people dry up, we will have an interesting situation.
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Offline blotter

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #186 on: November 27, 2014, 02:56:03 pm »
here's another interesting point...

I had a guy come to me for a car loan (used Ford)
My rate wasn't great, I couldn't term it out very long at all due to the year and the guy didn't qualify without a co-signer or security (truck year was too old to be used as security - we'd still use it but with no "value" to us)

He came to me after being declined from the dealership.

I asked him if he considered new, he said no and that he came to me after being declined.
I told him to try new, with the financing it would actually make his payments lower and it was likely Ford would approve it as the truck would be security.   Well guess what...  he came to me a few weeks later and said I was right...  and he bought a new truck

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #187 on: November 27, 2014, 03:02:47 pm »
yeah.. the logic doesn't always work out... in the end, it comes down to the responsibility level and comprehension of the person buying...

i don't think anyone will condemn anyone on here if they were offered 96 months at 0% on a car they were going to keep forever (with no added incentive for cash/shorter term)... but too often the buyer seems unaware they will be upsidedown until 3 months left in the term!... or to them, keeping it forever changes to 4 years and then they are unaware of how the math works...

it seems to all be about knowledge, and the common consumer just doesn't seem to have a whole lot.

Offline Harpster

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Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #188 on: November 27, 2014, 08:08:41 pm »

here's another interesting point...

I had a guy come to me for a car loan (used Ford)
My rate wasn't great, I couldn't term it out very long at all due to the year and the guy didn't qualify without a co-signer or security (truck year was too old to be used as security - we'd still use it but with no "value" to us)

He came to me after being declined from the dealership.

I asked him if he considered new, he said no and that he came to me after being declined.
I told him to try new, with the financing it would actually make his payments lower and it was likely Ford would approve it as the truck would be security.   Well guess what...  he came to me a few weeks later and said I was right...  and he bought a new truck

What's the minimum yr that can be stretched  to 84 or even 96?


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Offline tooscoops

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #189 on: November 27, 2014, 10:43:30 pm »
96 is current model year usually... some banks will do it on previous year, but it might be an 84 month term with 96 month amortization...

I had someone today asking if I could do 84 months on one of our used ones... a 2007... so they wanted to be still making payments when the car was almost 15 years old. just ridiculous... he saw nothing wrong with that... and if a bank would do it, he would have been happy to sign on the dotted line...

dummy.

Offline bridgecity

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #190 on: November 27, 2014, 11:21:26 pm »


I had someone today asking if I could do 84 months on one of our used ones... a 2007... so they wanted to be still making payments when the car was almost 15 years old. just ridiculous... he saw nothing wrong with that... and if a bank would do it, he would have been happy to sign on the dotted line...

dummy.

Geez... Really?..... Cripes. 
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Offline blotter

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #191 on: November 28, 2014, 09:03:13 am »
Quote
What's the minimum yr that can be stretched  to 84 or even 96?

we're totally not competitive on the "auto loan" front.
the max we'll do is 72M and the vehicle needs to a 2012 at least.

Usually I have to look at the blackbook value and ensure there's value listed until the end of the loan.
So if someone wants say $15,000 on a 2009 Toyota RAV 4
I can only stretch the term for as long as blackbook list value.  My guess on that vehicle is I could do a 3 year loan max (maybe 4).



Quote
I had someone today asking if I could do 84 months on one of our used ones... a 2007... so they wanted to be still making payments when the car was almost 15 years old. just ridiculous... he saw nothing wrong with that... and if a bank would do it, he would have been happy to sign on the dotted line...

dummy.

You would not beleive how much I get this.  I first comment is always, do you realize your car will be XX years old by the time you pay it off?   You'll like need to change cars by then, keeping you with loan payments. (nevermind the potential repair costs along the way, before the loan is paid)