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Author Topic: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one  (Read 45320 times)

Offline blotter

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #160 on: November 22, 2014, 12:32:51 pm »
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Blotter got high jacked at the very conclusion of his negotiation via a "security package fee" at which time he had the choice to reject it.

I figured someone would say I got ripped off and while once it's all said and done, I certainly know it's a BS fee with no value (actually free tire replacement is good)
but as mentioned.... this fee was not ADDED after the agreed price.

the total I agreed to pay after negotiations was exactly what I paid PLUS taxes. 

the "fee" is called "ride green certified + tire guard"
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Offline pi314

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #161 on: November 22, 2014, 12:59:27 pm »
SO since it wasn't ADDED but rather INCLUDED at the price you wanted, how are you being jacked? Wouldn't it be in bad faith to argue something because they gave exactly what you agreed on but wrote it up differently in the bill of sale?
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Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #162 on: November 22, 2014, 05:44:49 pm »
Quote from: pi314 on November 22, 2014, 12:59:27 pm
SO since it wasn't ADDED but rather INCLUDED at the price you wanted, how are you being jacked? Wouldn't it be in bad faith to argue something because they gave exactly what you agreed on but wrote it up differently in the bill of sale?

It's bad faith to alter a sales contract one minute prior to it's signing.  No dealer just gives away an extended third party tire warranty.  The buyer is paying for it regardless of what he thought was a 'fair" deal or the "verbal" agreed to out the door price.
 
There is no such thing as a "fair" deal because what defines a "fair" deal?   A "fair" deal is one dollar more than the amount at which time the dealer kicks you out of the store.  It's pretty easy to get there in advance.  Go to Car Cost Canada or APA and find the dealer invoice, add the prevailing dealer markup and bingo, Bob's your uncle.  ABSOLUTELY no shell games, no adding of "value added products", no BS about "were giving you this big discount, but we need to bring some of it back as a "fee", but rest assured it's just for accounting purposes.  You hear that and you're getting slammed.

As for "bad faith"; pretend buyers, aka test pilots, lead the charge here.   Ppl who have no intention, have not the means to buy X vehicle, but plague dealerships for test drives.     
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Offline tooscoops

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #163 on: November 24, 2014, 11:14:18 am »
to alter it before signing, for sure... sleazy and lies. but i don't think blotter's or many other peoples situations had any altering.. either it was the price quoted or advertised, and just the paperwork showed how that number came to be.

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Being an educated consumer can help make any transaction go smoothly and ensure you get the best deal possible. When buying a vehicle, this starts with understanding the advertising rules.

Simply stated, if a dealer’s advertisement includes a price for a vehicle, that price must be ‘all-in’. This means all fees a dealer intends to charge (e.g. freight/delivery, safety inspection, e-testing, OMVIC fee, administration fee, etc.) must be included in the advertised price. Dealers do not have to include HST or licensing in the advertised price so long as the ad indicates in a clear, comprehensible and prominent manner that HST is not included.

If a dealer attempts to add fees above the advertised price (unless these are options the purchaser has requested), DO NOT SIGN THE CONTRACT, shop elsewhere, and report the dealer to OMVIC.

that's from an old issue of their newsletter... i'm sure it's all over the place, that last line is the important one... and you can substitute negotiated with advertised regarding the price as well.

as for your points regarding the fair deal... it gets tricky with back end money... my last three new cars sold have been for invoice or below, and the customer was not a supplier or employee or anything. so i could sell a truck at invoice... yet if they look on-line or in the paper, they will probably see a dealer willing to give away all bonuses on the car as well in order to undercut everyone else's price. i think having all these dealership bonuses/back-end money is what is causing so many issues.
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Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #164 on: November 24, 2014, 04:27:16 pm »
In a Toyota showroom for a new Prius, window price list then dealership list
What is a registration fee?
 there was a $395 registration fee tack on before the gst





Mark
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 05:05:52 pm by airbalancer »
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Offline tooscoops

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #165 on: November 24, 2014, 04:58:48 pm »
they are putting on their admin/additional fee we are talking about...

we have price hangers in our window, but they just show the selling price, not any individual items... they are putting that in the window to give them a higher starting point in negotiations...
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Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #166 on: November 24, 2014, 05:06:53 pm »
They also need to get their copier serviced  :rofl2:
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Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #167 on: November 24, 2014, 05:12:02 pm »
Quote from: tooscoops on November 24, 2014, 04:58:48 pm
they are putting on their admin/additional fee we are talking about...


But AS said no extra fees  ::)
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Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #168 on: November 25, 2014, 01:03:18 am »
What is a registration fee?

Well why didn't you ask since you standing there  ???   :bang:






But AS said no extra fees


No, if you bothered to READ more carefully, I took exception to Blotter stating that Toyota Canada allowed Toyota stores to charge an "Administration" charge or fee.  Never disputed that Toyota dealers, and all new car dealers for that matter, attempt to charge "Additional" fees for unsolicited products or services.

That "Registration" fee on their contract will be the same $395.00 that showed up on Blotter's contract.  It will be the "registration" fee for Globali/Protector Plus, Sym-Tech Tire Guard, what have you.  :) 
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Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #169 on: November 25, 2014, 01:12:48 am »
they are putting on their admin/additional fee we are talking about...

You know perfectly well that is an "ADDITIONAL FEE".  That dealer is characterizing it as a "Registration Fee".  Such as "Tricor Security Registration", one of the more popular unsolicited dealer "enhanced" products, although it usually sells for $460.  :)

 
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Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #170 on: November 25, 2014, 06:58:44 am »
Quote from: ArticSteve on November 25, 2014, 01:03:18 am
What is a registration fee?

Well why didn't you ask since you standing there  ???   :bang:

They were changing the oil in the Prius , did not want to :censor: them off and not put the oil in  :rofl2:
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Offline blotter

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #171 on: November 25, 2014, 09:52:02 am »
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No, if you bothered to READ more carefully, I took exception to Blotter stating that Toyota Canada allowed Toyota stores to charge an "Administration" charge or fee.  Never disputed that Toyota dealers, and all new car dealers for that matter, attempt to charge "Additional" fees for unsolicited products or services.

That "Registration" fee on their contract will be the same $395.00 that showed up on Blotter's contract.  It will be the "registration" fee for Globali/Protector Plus, Sym-Tech Tire Guard, what have you.

you're taking exception on a technicality.

Administration Fee, Registration Fee, BS Fee, Fee, Globali Fee, Tire Fee, Thanks for buy a car fee.....
call it whatever you want it's really all the same.




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Offline wing

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #172 on: November 25, 2014, 10:13:23 am »
They use the word registration to confuse buyers.  Because most will assume it costs that much to get it registered with the MTO.
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Offline blotter

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #173 on: November 25, 2014, 10:18:09 am »
FWIW - my invoice didn't use the words registration. 
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Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #174 on: November 25, 2014, 01:45:21 pm »
you're taking exception on a technicality.

Administration Fee, Registration Fee, BS Fee, Fee, Globali Fee, Tire Fee, Thanks for buy a car fee.....
call it whatever you want it's really all the same.



If one is signing a contract for $35K plus 13%, it's prudent to actually understand what's written in it.

Administration Fees add no value whatsoever.  It's a surcharge added by almost all used car dealers.  Essentially, it's a charge for them speaking and executing the sale to the customer.  :P

Registration Fees are unsolicited "value added" products and services.  In your deal you received a tire and wheel warranty.  It may or may not pay off.  But it was optional.

Consequently, as a buyer it's critical to know what different terms mean before hand.



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Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #175 on: November 25, 2014, 01:50:22 pm »
Quote from: wing on November 25, 2014, 10:13:23 am
They use the word registration to confuse buyers.  Because most will assume it costs that much to get it registered with the MTO.

AB's dealer is putting it out front to gauge customer reaction.  Some dealers like to spring at the time of signing.
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Offline tooscoops

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #176 on: November 25, 2014, 06:11:11 pm »
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Administration Fee, Registration Fee, BS Fee, Fee, Globali Fee, Tire Fee, Thanks for buy a car fee.....
call it whatever you want it's really all the same.

i think that's how most buyers feel. i think as long as customers are respected and not piled on after negotiations, they will be pretty forgiving of those fees and products, whatever they call em. obviously, the fewer (or none) the better for both the salesperson and the customer... not always for the dealer, but i don't think many are losing sleep over that.
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Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #177 on: November 25, 2014, 06:32:18 pm »
All buyers (customers) need to do is prepare themselves BEFORE entering into the process so that they are the ones steering the negotiations.  Of course only about 10% do this so Darwin's law prevails.  :)
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Offline tpl

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #178 on: November 27, 2014, 08:35:52 am »
I wonder if leasing was restricted to strictly business owned vehicles ( real businesses that is) whether we would not all  be better off.  Perhaps combined with a maximum length of a car loan of 48 months and those loans being a maximum of 95% of value...like mortgages are/were.
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Offline pi314

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Re: Here’s why you want a new car and not a used one
« Reply #179 on: November 27, 2014, 08:56:49 am »
Well leasing makes sense for people who've made the choice to change cars often. And GAP coverage generally means you have a fixed cost for the car no matter what happens.

For those two reasons I wouldn't want leasing to be disallowed, though I've yet to lease a car myself.
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