Topic: Comparison Test: 2015 Chrysler 200C AWD vs 2015 Subaru Legacy AWD Limited

[Snowman]

"Jacob didn't warn me about the 200's suspension before we got in.  He didn't say anything on the drive, either.  I got behind the wheel, hit an expansion joint, and "WHOAAAH, WHAT THE F***!"  He looked at me, I looked at him (and the road, definitely more the road ) and I said, "bump steer!"  Beyond the crashy sound, the problem is that bumps in the road actually change the direction of the 200.  That, I didn't like, but could live with.  Barely"

My wife rents a different car every month in her trips out west, she said the 200 is "dangerous" and will never drive one again. 

[tooscoops]

wasn't that the old one, or is it the new one too? i know you have had issues with the old gen 200 being "dangerous"

[Noto]

"Jacob didn't warn me about the 200's suspension before we got in.  He didn't say anything on the drive, either.  I got behind the wheel, hit an expansion joint, and "WHOAAAH, WHAT THE F***!"  He looked at me, I looked at him (and the road, definitely more the road ) and I said, "bump steer!"  Beyond the crashy sound, the problem is that bumps in the road actually change the direction of the 200.  That, I didn't like, but could live with.  Barely"

My wife rents a different car every month in her trips out west, she said the 200 is "dangerous" and will never drive one again.

...but, see, this is the issue.  If Chrysler is reading this, to make the 200 a vehicle that would be VERY difficult not to buy, these are the fixes that have to be made:
1) Transmission.  8-speed, CVT, or somehow fix the 9er, but it has to be fixed.  Gear hunting is not ok, nor is a massive lag before power is given.  Same thing with the paddle shifters.
2) Suspension is crashy.
3) Remote 60/40 seat release in the trunk.

There.  That's it.  The problem is, those are some serious issues.  They're not "preference", they're downright dangerous (especially #3? ).  I would think 200 v.2.0 could be a tremendous hit if those things are addressed, and if they learn from Honda at all, the 2016 Chryfi 200 could be the best mid-size vehicle out there (maybe not for resale, but that would change if reliability proves itself).

[ArticSteve]

I think the Jacob has deviously decided that it would be fun to compare a Subaru to a Chrylser just to agitate the forum.

 

[2JDM]

  Well that escalated quickly.

[Snowman]

[Benhaze]

You're kidding me, right? Looks means nothing if you will disregard the manufacturer because their products have been poor for decades. Why would anyone go back to buying another if the first experience is bad? Improve the reputation, then work on styling. I've owned a Dodge Stratus and you can't provide me enough incentive to step inside a showroom. Why is it that Chrysler is being passed around by other manufacturers (Mercedes, Fiat, and whoever else).

That is a really misinformed statement clouded by a personal experience.

[rrocket]

Wow...$40K for a Chrysler 200.  That's a tough pill to swallow.

Just read a another review of the same 200.   http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/10/capsule-review-2015-chrysler-200s-awd/

[Snowman]

[Benhaze]

Wow...$40K for a Chrysler 200.  That's a tough pill to swallow.

Just read a another review of the same 200.   http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/10/capsule-review-2015-chrysler-200s-awd/

All-wheel-drive, on the other hand, is only available with the V6 and adds $2250 to the cost of a 200 S V6 or 200 C V6. The subsequent weight increase isn’t worth it when good winter tires will accomplish more.

Spoken like someone who thinks all season tires are great in winter...    The same article mentioned that the 200 is 100# heavier than a Legacy 3.6R. I guess Sube shoul just stop selling cars with AWD systems too  .  These guys' reviews are hit and miss

[tazcubed]

You're kidding me, right? Looks means nothing if you will disregard the manufacturer because their products have been poor for decades. Why would anyone go back to buying another if the first experience is bad? Improve the reputation, then work on styling. I've owned a Dodge Stratus and you can't provide me enough incentive to step inside a showroom. Why is it that Chrysler is being passed around by other manufacturers (Mercedes, Fiat, and whoever else).

That is a really misinformed statement clouded by a personal experience.

Explain. How so?

[rrocket]

Spoken like someone who thinks all season tires are great in winter...    The same article mentioned that the 200 is 100# heavier than a Legacy 3.6R. I guess Sube shoul just stop selling cars with AWD systems too  .  These guys' reviews are hit and miss

Except his statement is accurate.  And tire tests back it up.  An AWD vehicle with all season tires stops slower than a FWD vehicle with winters.  It's not the getting up to speed part that poses problems in the winter...it's the stopping and turning part.

[EV-Light]

Looks like Marchionne isn't happy with CR's reliability results.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/10/28/business/ap-us-fiat-chrysler-quality-chief.html?smid=tw-nytimeswheels&seid=auto&_r=2

DETROIT — Doug Betts, Fiat Chrysler's longtime quality chief, abruptly left the company Tuesday, one day after its brands performed poorly in Consumer Reports magazine's annual reliability rankings.

Fiat Chrysler said in a statement that Betts, who has been with Chrysler for the past seven years, exited the company to pursue other interests. He was immediately replaced by Mark Chernoby, who will head quality for the global company, and Matthew Liddane, who will lead Chrysler Group quality in North America.

Betts, who was senior vice president of quality, joined Chrysler in November of 2007 after more than 21 years of quality experience at Nissan, Toyota, Michelin and General Motors. But he had trouble fixing the company's longstanding quality problems, and it continually fared poorly in the influential Consumer Reports rankings.

Company spokeswoman Shawn Morgan would not comment on any possible connection between Betts' departure and the rankings. A message was left Tuesday for Betts.

Sergio Marchionne, CEO of the newly merged company, has shown little patience with executives whose performances fall short of expectations. He's often changed his top managers since taking control of the company after it emerged from a U.S. government-sponsored bankruptcy in 2009.

But AutoTrader.com senior analyst Michelle Krebs said Marchionne had been more patient than usual with Betts. "It clearly sends the message that Chrysler management is not going to accept bad quality going forward," she said. "They need to do something. Yesterday's results were really dismal."

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles fared worst in the Consumer Reports rankings this year. The Dodge, Ram, Jeep and Fiat brands occupied the bottom four spots of 28 brands ranked by the magazine. Chrysler was the company's highest-ranked brand at No. 22. Jeep, Ram, Dodge and Chrysler all dropped from last year's rankings.

The new nine-speed transmission in the Jeep Cherokee was among the company's headaches.

The instability created by combining Chrysler with Fiat has not helped reliability as the companies switched to using common engines, transmissions and underpinnings to build multiple vehicles worldwide, said Consumer Reports' head of auto testing Jake Fisher. "It's just this kind of moving target," Fisher said.

Chrysler's quality problems, though, can't be blamed solely on Betts, Krebs said. The company must fix engineering, design and manufacturing problems as well, she said. Such problems, she said, could hurt Chrysler's sales in the future if customers have problems with their cars.

Chernoby, who now serves as FCA's head of product development, will keep that position in addition to his quality duties. Liddane, a longtime Chrysler engineer, previously was vice president of systems and components for Chrysler Group. He has served as chief engineer for Jeep products and led the company's new compact car efforts.

The Toyota and Lexus brands topped the Consumer Reports survey. It's the eighth year in a row that a Toyota brand has led the rankings.

Consumer Reports' annual survey is closely watched by the auto industry, since many potential buyers follow the Yonkers, N.Y.-based company's recommendations.

[rrocket]

^^Do you have a link to the complete CR report?

[EV-Light]

^^Do you have a link to the complete CR report?

the results were posted earlier in this thread...here, just found it: http://pressroom.consumerreports.org/pressroom/2014/10/my-entry.html

[johngenx]

The old 200 was pretty crappy.  I'd have dropped the name just to keep anyone from thinking the cars are the same.

In the family sedan class I'd have three on my list.

The Honda Accord for FWD.  It's a conservative design, but crisp and the interior is very nice.  Nice car to own, I'm sure.

The Camry Hybrid for economical operation.  Crazy good fuel economy!!

The Subaru Legacy for AWD.  If I'm buying AWD, I want good AWD and the Subaru brings the goods.

There's lots of good choices like the Fusion, 6, etc, but that's my list.

[rrocket]

I'd have dropped the name just to keep anyone from thinking the cars are the same.

Truly a puzzling, bone-headed move.  It's not like there was a tremendous "brand" cult in the 200 name.

Surely there was a different Dodge name they could have resurrected...

[Benhaze]

Spoken like someone who thinks all season tires are great in winter...    The same article mentioned that the 200 is 100# heavier than a Legacy 3.6R. I guess Sube shoul just stop selling cars with AWD systems too  .  These guys' reviews are hit and miss

Except his statement is accurate.  And tire tests back it up.  An AWD vehicle with all season tires stops slower than a FWD vehicle with winters.  It's not the getting up to speed part that poses problems in the winter...it's the stopping and turning part.

I agree with you and believe winter tires are a must regardless if you drive a FWD or AWD (in Canada) for the very same reasons you mentioned. The point I was trying to make was that passing on the AWD system because of its weight thinking that using winter tires on a FWD is just as good is not quite right...

[Rupert]

   If you look at Tire Rack, there are some All Season/Weather tires that have a very decent winter/snow rating. Surely we can save the environment a bit and not go overboard here. I have managed safely for 50 years with even lesser tires and FWD. You possibly need big knobby ones in deeper snow anyway and these were necessary with rear wheel drive and the lighter drive wheel loading.

[tortoise]

I'd rather drive confidently in bad weather than safely manage.  Your "good enough" is my totally inadequate.