Topic: Ford engine manufacture contract moves to Mexico, leaves Windsor in the dust.

[Snowman]

Thats the thing, most people will be social justice warriors until it comes down to pull the trigger and spend your money. Couch handmade in Canada by actual craftsmen that will last a lifetime, $5-6K, couch at Ikea made in Bangladesh by robots and children, $600. "Yo bro, Im really concerned about the state of our planet and the third world but f$%k spending another $5k".......

We used to manufacture pretty much anything we had a demand for. Once tariffs were dropped almost all manufacturing industries collapsed. If you want the same economy we had in the 1950s-1960s, we have to bring back the same policies we had then.

Agreed. Call it ethical or environmental tariffs but it must be done. Keep shopping at Wallmart  people....the rich keep getting richer and poor are more poor.

[rrocket]

Agreed. Call it ethical or environmental tariffs but it must be done. Keep shopping at Wallmart  people....the rich keep getting richer and poor are more poor.

Yea, but where do you draw the line?

You drive an Audi....a foreign car company that does NOT support Canadian workers/manufacturing.  So one could easily point the finger at you too (and me with my 911).

[Snowman]

Agreed. Call it ethical or environmental tariffs but it must be done. Keep shopping at Wallmart  people....the rich keep getting richer and poor are more poor.

Yea, but where do you draw the line?

You drive an Audi....a foreign car company that does NOT support Canadian workers/manufacturing.  So one could easily point the finger at you too (and me with my 911).

Yes I did, but I do support the middle class in Europe  I always make an effort to buy local, you won't see me run to the US border to save a few bucks. I won't even step foot inside a Walmart.

[rrocket]

Agreed. Call it ethical or environmental tariffs but it must be done. Keep shopping at Wallmart  people....the rich keep getting richer and poor are more poor.

Yea, but where do you draw the line?

You drive an Audi....a foreign car company that does NOT support Canadian workers/manufacturing.  So one could easily point the finger at you too (and me with my 911).

Yes I did, but I do support the middle class in Europe  I always make an effort to buy local, you won't see me run to the US border to save a few bucks. I won't even step foot inside a Walmart.

But you've spent more on your Audi than you'd ever likely spend in Walmart.  So there's really no difference IMO.  Buying a foreign car is the same as buying foreign goods at a Walmart.

I all about spending your money how you see fit.  After all..it's YOUR money.  I'm just saying..depending on where one draws the line, there's little or no distinction.

[Snowman]

Agreed. Call it ethical or environmental tariffs but it must be done. Keep shopping at Wallmart  people....the rich keep getting richer and poor are more poor.

Yea, but where do you draw the line?

You drive an Audi....a foreign car company that does NOT support Canadian workers/manufacturing.  So one could easily point the finger at you too (and me with my 911).

Yes I did, but I do support the middle class in Europe  I always make an effort to buy local, you won't see me run to the US border to save a few bucks. I won't even step foot inside a Walmart.

But you've spent more on your Audi than you'd ever likely spend in Walmart.  So there's really no difference IMO.  Buying a foreign car is the same as buying foreign goods at a Walmart.

I all about spending your money how you see fit.  After all..it's YOUR money.  I'm just saying..depending on where one draws the line, there's little or no distinction.

I look at all options before making a buying decision. When it comes to cars the last domestic was 1998....even if I wanted one now, are the parts and assembly in Canada or the US now?

[rrocket]

I look at all options before making a buying decision. When it comes to cars the last domestic was 1998....even if I wanted one now, are the parts and assembly in Canada or the US now?

It certainly depends on the car.  Even if the domestic you buy isn't built in Canada, the company at least supports a manufacturing infrastructure in Canada.  For example, you want a C7.  The C7 isn't made in Canada (it's made in Kentucky), but GM does have other plants in Canada that employ thousands of Canadians in the manufacturing sector.  In addition, facilities like mine make the hard tooling for many of the parts.  Whereas a foreign made car like your Audi or my 911 have ZERO manufacturing footprint in Canada. 

In effect, you've bought your Audi at Walmart.  Except I dare say, Walmart employs more Canadians than Audi Canada does.   

[Snowman]

I look at all options before making a buying decision. When it comes to cars the last domestic was 1998....even if I wanted one now, are the parts and assembly in Canada or the US now?

It certainly depends on the car.  Even if the domestic you buy isn't built in Canada, the company at least supports a manufacturing infrastructure in Canada.  For example, you want a C7.  The C7 isn't made in Canada (it's made in Kentucky), but GM does have other plants in Canada that employ thousands of Canadians in the manufacturing sector.  In addition, facilities like mine make the hard tooling for many of the parts.  Whereas a foreign made car like your Audi or my 911 have ZERO manufacturing footprint in Canada. 

In effect, you've bought your Audi at Walmart.  Except I dare say, Walmart employs more Canadians than Audi Canada does.   

  nice try. If a domestic offered a car comparable then I would consider it.

[tpl]

Last 'domestic' I bought was a '87 Golf GTI built ( assembled) in Pennsylvania )   American steel but a German built drivetrain.

Is 'domestic' defined as a car built in US/Canada   or US/Canada/Mexico ?   Is 'assembly'  in one of those places considered domestic by car buyers?   I know that NAFTA  computes how much of a car is sourced where  to determine that but what about us humans?

[Rupert]

   My experience with ordinary vehicles is that the offshore product design and quality is at least equal and better. You don't hear about wage negotiations and strike threats every few years from offshore either. Or bailouts.
   This dialogue is a bit late for other manufacturing where outsourcing has been going on for many years...restraining handouts being in place or not. Profit means no hand out I think. But you still need a market to sell to.

[blotter]

In effect, you've bought your Audi at Walmart.  Except I dare say, Walmart employs more Canadians than Audi Canada does.   

If the Audi in question is built in Germany, how would you equal that to Walmart?
Germany is a first world country like Canada / USA.  Payroll for workers would be similar (vs low pay for Mexican workers)     

While I'd prefer to purchase a North American product, the second choice is products built in other coutries that pay a comparable fair wage.    Bike parts is a perfect example.   I know parts made in Germany and the UK will be much more likely built with similar rules and regulations as a plant in Canada or US.   (wage, environment)

that against say something made in China, Mexico, Taiwan - which likely don't have the same wage and environmental regulations.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

   My experience with ordinary vehicles is that the offshore product design and quality is at least equal and better. You don't hear about wage negotiations and strike threats every few years from offshore either. Or bailouts.
   This dialogue is a bit late for other manufacturing where outsourcing has been going on for many years...restraining handouts being in place or not. Profit means no hand out I think. But you still need a market to sell to.

Just because you aren't listening, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/85df9c68-42ea-11e4-9a58-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3HddHtvuP

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7001748

[Sir Osis of Liver]

In effect, you've bought your Audi at Walmart.  Except I dare say, Walmart employs more Canadians than Audi Canada does.   

If the Audi in question is built in Germany, how would you equal that to Walmart?
Germany is a first world country like Canada / USA.  Payroll for workers would be similar (vs low pay for Mexican workers)     

While I'd prefer to purchase a North American product, the second choice is products built in other coutries that pay a comparable fair wage.    Bike parts is a perfect example.   I know parts made in Germany and the UK will be much more likely built with similar rules and regulations as a plant in Canada or US.   (wage, environment)

that against say something made in China, Mexico, Taiwan - which likely don't have the same wage and environmental regulations.

Exactly. German auto workers are better paid than NA ones, yet their companies are still quite profitable.

[OliverD]

Exactly. German auto workers are better paid than NA ones, yet their companies are still quite profitable.

And yet they too have also sent a lot of manufacturing to eastern European countries.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Exactly. German auto workers are better paid than NA ones, yet their companies are still quite profitable.

And yet they too have also sent a lot of manufacturing to eastern European countries.

Something has to give when your competition has a big cost advantage. They have done a pretty good job of maintaining workers in Germany proper though.

[Rupert]

Yeah...and Mexico. Would they still be profitable without that. So are their offshore products propping the rest up?

The rest of us who are not part of all of this want cheaper product....read cheaper...we are already on the flat world.

[rrocket]

Exactly. German auto workers are better paid than NA ones, yet their companies are still quite profitable.

And yet they too have also sent a lot of manufacturing to eastern European countries.

Something has to give when your competition has a big cost advantage. They have done a pretty good job of maintaining workers in Germany proper though.

That has much to do with the trade unions there.  Much different than here...and more powerful.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Exactly. German auto workers are better paid than NA ones, yet their companies are still quite profitable.

And yet they too have also sent a lot of manufacturing to eastern European countries.

Something has to give when your competition has a big cost advantage. They have done a pretty good job of maintaining workers in Germany proper though.

That has much to do with the trade unions there.  Much different than here...and more powerful.

They don't have more power than German unions. But the relationship between unions and management in Germany is nowhere near as toxic.

[rrocket]

Exactly. German auto workers are better paid than NA ones, yet their companies are still quite profitable.

And yet they too have also sent a lot of manufacturing to eastern European countries.

Something has to give when your competition has a big cost advantage. They have done a pretty good job of maintaining workers in Germany proper though.

That has much to do with the trade unions there.  Much different than here...and more powerful.

They don't have more power than German unions. But the relationship between unions and management in Germany is nowhere near as toxic.

No..I was saying German unions have more power.  "That has much to do with trade unions THERE....where they are much different and more powerful than here."

[Rupert]

You talk abstractly about unions as if they represent the whole of society...that is not so at all.

[tpl]

I believe the German unions have joint union management committees that really do work together and avoid strikes and improve the way the work is done.   The committees established by law I think.   Not to say that sometimes there are not major disagreements.