Topic: Test Drive: 2015 Honda Fit EX CVT

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Fair enough.  Still, SirO should be proud of me I finally found my own stats!

I was going to ask what you did with Sir O – stealing his charts and all...

'twas not a theft, but a mere learning from the Master.  I shall never replace our dear YodaSirO!

I'm not buying it, you're way too opinionated to have an analytical personality. 

On the other hand, Sir-O is like Spock...only not so emotional. 

[Rupert]

    If you are enamoured with a Fit and it's utility, I can't see that a Civic would be in the picture. The Fit has managed to find a unique slot with it's back seat design...the same as Stow & Go did. They also managed to provide a flat (not inclined) rear seat back when folded...albeit with a step which is ok by me. Other cars around don't seem to be able to do this and provide a mindless sloping feature which has less utility. A lot to like here and the HP from a 1.5 L is nice if torque in ordinary rev range is there. I don't like the severely sloped windshield...hard to clean the inside. Maybe the roof might have been brought forward a bit more to lessen the slope. Same instrument style as Micra and Yaris and a few others now...nice. Not that I think that either of the aforementioned vehicles are a cross shop here....well they may be but are not the same at all. Nothing seems to be.

[Noto]

In absolute terms, demand for the Civic is higher than for the Fit. But relative to supply, there is higher demand for the Fit. That's why Fits stay on lots for much less time than Civics do, and it's why there are more incentives for the Civic.

But why would we care about terms that are not absolute?  Why does demand relative to supply matter at all?  It doesn't equate to more profit for Honda unless the supply is grossly out of line and the demand is so low that there remain unsold models at the end of a certain period.

I think with a $1,200 premium for the Civic over the Fit, it's a no-brainer to get the Civic.  I think if the Fit were cheaper, it would sell better.  If you want a cheap car, you go for cheap.  If you need an automatic tranny and want a Fit, even with no incentives on either car, I'd wager most people would spend the extra $1,200 to get the Civic over the Fit unless you really, REALLY want a hatchback.

[dkaz]

The last Fit seemed flimsy, unsophisticated and noisy compared to the Fiesta. Handling was roughly a wash.

With the new updates and the addition of the ST, the Fiesta would still be my go-to in this class. If space was critical, I'd step up to a Mazda5 or Rondo.

The Mazda 5 and Rondo are significantly bigger than the Fit and significantly more expensive base model vs. base model, but the 5 GS is only $700 more than the Fit EX-L but you a few features: Bluetooth(1), leather wrapped steering wheel(1), heated seats(2), SiriusXM(2), heated body coloured door mirrors with integrated turn signals(2), fog lights(2), moonroof(3), leather seat surfaces(4), navigation(5), push button start(5), lane watch(5), and lounge mode seats(5).

(1) GS with Convenience Package, +$1055
(2) GT, +$2810
(3) GT with Moonroof Package, +$3705
(4) GT with Moonroof and Luxury Packages, +4600
(5) Not available

The 5 does come with things the Fit EX-L doesn't, like standard rain sensing windshield wipers on the base GS trim and also HIDs in the GT trim.

Even then, on an old Mazda 5 forum I was on, it seems that a number of people cross shopped the Mazda 5 and Honda Fit.

[OliverD]

But why would we care about terms that are not absolute?  Why does demand relative to supply matter at all?  It doesn't equate to more profit for Honda unless the supply is grossly out of line and the demand is so low that there remain unsold models at the end of a certain period.

It matters because that is how the price of the product is determined, which is what we're talking about.

I think with a $1,200 premium for the Civic over the Fit, it's a no-brainer to get the Civic.  I think if the Fit were cheaper, it would sell better.  If you want a cheap car, you go for cheap.  If you need an automatic tranny and want a Fit, even with no incentives on either car, I'd wager most people would spend the extra $1,200 to get the Civic over the Fit unless you really, REALLY want a hatchback.

Three things:

1. Most people want boring things, ergo the Civic will outsell the Fit all things being equal.

2. Your argument that the Fit would sell better if it was cheaper can be made for every consumer product ever produced.

3. Again, you're arguing in this thread that $1200 is insignificant while in others you say it is.

The bottom line is, the Fit and Civic are different enough vehicles that it doesn't particularly matter if the price is fairly close. The key thing is that the Fit is cheaper than the equivalent Civic, and it is. As Sir O speculated above, I think it's fair to assume that the profit margins for the Civic are higher than the Fit's, and therefore it makes sense for Honda to price the two products closely enough that they can somewhat limit supply of the Fit, which results in larger overall profits because they are not cannibalizing Civic sales.

[Noto]

[you're ruining my secret plan to get Honda to lower the price of the Fit - stop that ]

[WRX_Pilot]

I have a hard time believing anyone would choose the Fiesta over the Fit, if they want anything practical (which otherwise why would you be shopping in this category at all), on account of the useless backseats and marginal rear hatch room in the Fiesta.

[OliverD]

Yeah, the Fiesta is quite tight.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I have a hard time believing anyone would choose the Fiesta over the Fit, if they want anything practical (which otherwise why would you be shopping in this category at all), on account of the useless backseats and marginal rear hatch room in the Fiesta.

Well, last year in the US a lot of people did:
Fiesta 71,073
Fit 53,513

Even in Canada, where we aren't as hostile to hatchbacks, the Fiesta was ahead:
Fiesta 9,851
Fit 9,512

I think the flexibility and size of the rear seat isn't that big of a draw. Someone looking for space is likely just going to buy a bigger car. A large small car is like being the tallest dwarf or shortest giant.

In the front seats, the Fiesta has more leg and headroom, but marginally less shoulder room. In back the only place it suffers is in legroom, by about 8cm. I've sat in the back of one when the front seat is adjusted for myself, and the legroom was adequate, i.e. my knees weren't touching the front seat.

[dkaz]

I have a hard time believing anyone would choose the Fiesta over the Fit, if they want anything practical (which otherwise why would you be shopping in this category at all), on account of the useless backseats and marginal rear hatch room in the Fiesta.

For parents, it is a big deal. I really wanted a Focus but was vetoed by my wife due to the lack of legroom for the kids in the back in their car seat, and no legroom for her with the rear facing car seat.

[soj]

Throughout this conversation no one has really commented on the looks of the latest edition.  With all the side panel cutouts and curves I somehow suspect it wouldn't stand the test of time very well.  The Mark II Fit is probably the best looking of the three design iterations and judging by its carrying capacity also the most practical.

As for a comparison to the Fiesta, IMHO the Fiesta has it over the Fit in terms or exterior design/looks whereas the new Fit (or the old Fit) carries the day in terms of interior practicality.  Where the Fiesta blows the Fit into the weeds is if it's optioned with the new 1.0 liter turbo engine.  Sadly that means you have to have certain driving skills as no slush box available.  Neither can you get a block heater so if your winter temperatures consistent fall below -30 C, you may have an issue depending on whether you use the the best synthetic oil.

For me it would come down to a road test and which of the two would leave the biggest grin on my face.  I suspect the Fiesta would carry the day but I could be wrong!  Good vibrations usually trump practicality but the Fiesta's ability to go further on a liter of gas could well convince the ultimate arbitrator of practicality: "she who must be obeyed" assuming she's a real woman and can drive a "stick shift".  If she can't, it's a moot point, you're Fit bound.  In which case you have my sympathy not because the Fit is a bad conveyance but because so many of your future options are limited.

[Oldsguy]

"Our EX test car had durable black fabric upholstery with attractive white geometric patterns in the seat inserts."

How does the author know this is durable? Did he do a test?

[Rupert]

Maybe I am wrong but I think that there are dividing lines other than small to large which in this case put the Fiesta et al outside of the group in which the Fit sits. Maybe in the Fit's grouping would be the Versa Note..to..the Matrix (bit bigger). Yaris, Micra and Mazda 2 a bit small to be included perhaps. More a concept thing but none have the trick seat which, also here, should not be forgotten. It's not that people would not cross shop between groupings though. Handling is a moot point in my estimation at this level. They are different but all handle plenty good. Not withstanding the 1L. turbo...if I remember from reading...the Fit's engine is double over head cam @130 hp. Not too shabby but no flat torque curve. So; engine versus seat. Assuming handling is mute or par. Ford should include an automatic to go with the 1 liter. I suspect not doing such lost Fiat sales for the 500T model. Since we are already at the lower boundary in fuel consumption here, I don't think small differences in gas usage is a big factor in choosing.

[MJMontreal]

I have a hard time believing anyone would choose the Fiesta over the Fit, if they want anything practical (which otherwise why would you be shopping in this category at all), on account of the useless backseats and marginal rear hatch room in the Fiesta.

Well, last year in the US a lot of people did:
Fiesta 71,073
Fit 53,513

Even in Canada, where we aren't as hostile to hatchbacks, the Fiesta was ahead:
Fiesta 9,851
Fit 9,512

I think the flexibility and size of the rear seat isn't that big of a draw. Someone looking for space is likely just going to buy a bigger car. A large small car is like being the tallest dwarf or shortest giant.

In the front seats, the Fiesta has more leg and headroom, but marginally less shoulder room. In back the only place it suffers is in legroom, by about 8cm. I've sat in the back of one when the front seat is adjusted for myself, and the legroom was adequate, i.e. my knees weren't touching the front seat.

I wonder how many of those Fiestas sold in the US are actually sedans. I have seen many more Fiesta sedans in the US than hatchbacks.

[Noto]

Maybe I am wrong but I think that there are dividing lines other than small to large which in this case put the Fiesta et al outside of the group in which the Fit sits.
...
Ford should include an automatic to go with the 1 liter. I suspect not doing such lost Fiat sales for the 500T model. Since we are already at the lower boundary in fuel consumption here, I don't think small differences in gas usage is a big factor in choosing.

Re sizing: This again goes to my thought about rental cars.  The Fit is not in its own class shared only with the Versa Note.  People see the Versa/Fit as 'below' the Civic/Corolla in terms of size (because few prospective buyers look at a car purely for interior volume, though they may change their minds after sitting in it).  I guarantee that someone who is looking at the Fit will also consider the Rio, Yaris, etc. and may thereafter consider the Fit's interior utility as a bonus, but may still forego the Fit in favour of the Rio because it has standard heated seats, or the Yaris because...no, nobody should like the Yaris.  Stupid car. 

While I agree that not offering the 1.0T with the automatic cost Ford sales of that engine, there's often more to the story.  The 1.0T with an automatic would be a crappy driver - you really need to wring it out to get power out of it compared to the basic 1.6L.  No, the 1.0T is more impactful when marketing is considered.  "Look at me, I'm Ford, I'm an innovator, I focus on fuel economy, I focus on bring you technology in small cars.  I don't care if you buy it because you'll at least look at me."

...and then they buy a Focus, and through the years, they become brand-loyal and stick with Fords as they make mo monay.

It's deceptive, but smart.  We, the feeble consumers, are powerless to stop it. 

[conwelpic]

in reference to some previous posts the Fit and Fiesta are still running neck and neck on YTD in Canada.

Jan - Sept 2014
Fiesta - 7,371
Fit - 7,652

Mazda 2 - 1,836
Yaris - 6,801

[Rupert]

I thought that the turbo engines had low down torque that stayed on a flat line and did not need to be wrung out to get there. Why would that not work with an automatic.

[EV-Light]

I have a hard time believing anyone would choose the Fiesta over the Fit, if they want anything practical (which otherwise why would you be shopping in this category at all), on account of the useless backseats and marginal rear hatch room in the Fiesta.

surprise: I'd take a Fiesta over a Fit....just based on design alone, I can't get over the bubbly face of this car and the horrible interior design.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I have a hard time believing anyone would choose the Fiesta over the Fit, if they want anything practical (which otherwise why would you be shopping in this category at all), on account of the useless backseats and marginal rear hatch room in the Fiesta.

Well, last year in the US a lot of people did:
Fiesta 71,073
Fit 53,513

Even in Canada, where we aren't as hostile to hatchbacks, the Fiesta was ahead:
Fiesta 9,851
Fit 9,512

I think the flexibility and size of the rear seat isn't that big of a draw. Someone looking for space is likely just going to buy a bigger car. A large small car is like being the tallest dwarf or shortest giant.

In the front seats, the Fiesta has more leg and headroom, but marginally less shoulder room. In back the only place it suffers is in legroom, by about 8cm. I've sat in the back of one when the front seat is adjusted for myself, and the legroom was adequate, i.e. my knees weren't touching the front seat.

I wonder how many of those Fiestas sold in the US are actually sedans. I have seen many more Fiesta sedans in the US than hatchbacks.

The lack of a sedan does hurt the Fit in the US.

[tpl]

I thought that the turbo engines had low down torque that stayed on a flat line and did not need to be wrung out to get there. Why would that not work with an automatic.

It works very well with an automatic.