Topic: Day-by-Day Review: 2015 Chrysler 200C AWD; Day 1

[Noto]

The 9-speed tranny remains my concern in any and every car for which it is installed.  Acura TLX included.

Yup.....that sounds like a nightmare once out of warranty.

Not to turn this into a discussion re the TLX, but I would actually forego purchasing the TLX solely on the basis of I will not buy one with a 9-speed tranny, and the 4-banger/8-speed combo is not available with AWD.  Shame that Acura followed Chryfi in deciding that 9-speeds is more desirable than 8-speeds in every application.

[Fobroader]

Why would a 9 speed be anymore likely to break (in real life) than a 4, 5 or 6 speed? Before you answer, remember that my car has twice the parts it needs.

Chrysler had huge issues with 3 and 4 speed autos. This is far more complex and because of the small packaging that a FWD car commands, its not like they can make the parts big and beefy.

[Northernridge]

Why would a 9 speed be anymore likely to break (in real life) than a 4, 5 or 6 speed? Before you answer, remember that my car has twice the parts it needs.

Chrysler had huge issues with 3 and 4 speed autos. This is far more complex and because of the small packaging that a FWD car commands, its not like they can make the parts big and beefy.

I wonder...if more cogs equal more mechanical issues...then CVTs should be perfect!

Actually, what I was going to speculate on was that there is probably more problems associated with specific transmission designs then there is a correlation between cogs and problems.

[Fobroader]

Why would a 9 speed be anymore likely to break (in real life) than a 4, 5 or 6 speed? Before you answer, remember that my car has twice the parts it needs.

Chrysler had huge issues with 3 and 4 speed autos. This is far more complex and because of the small packaging that a FWD car commands, its not like they can make the parts big and beefy.

I wonder...if more cogs equal more mechanical issues...then CVTs should be perfect!

Actually, what I was going to speculate on was that there is probably more problems associated with specific transmission designs then there is a correlation between cogs and problems.

Well there is are older, very durable auto trannies that were 3 and 4 spds, TH350/400 and the C4/C6.....before you dragracing guys get on me, the 2 spd Powerglide isnt exactly "streetable"  . These have been out for such a long time that for very cheaply you can rebuild them and they will last forever with huge amounts of power in front of them and drive them like you stole it. Seems the newer the transmission, the lighter duty the components are and the overall complexity of the tranny is huge which makes overhauls hugely expensive. Seems that manufacturers have this moar=way moar better!!

[BillM]

$40k.  Yowza.  And peeps were ragging on the price of the Sonata!    If I could find $40k for this thing, I'm sure I could find a few extra grand for a Genesis - which is at a whole different level.

Anyway, looking forward to James' thoughts on the car, and how it compares to the Hyundai apart from price.  This is another car that I think look better in person than in pics.  Interior does not appeal.

A Genesis V6 with the similar level of equipment, safety tech etc. is $55K.
I see a lot of reviews of cars where they point out the top level is near, what is the starting price, for a more expensive car. No one shopping for a car with all the tech is likely interested in the base model of anything. I like the Genesis as well but would cost close to 20K more after taxes for the Tech model. A similar equipped Acura TLX would be about 10K more. Compare apples to apples.

[tooscoops]

these 9 speeds actually have fewer parts than most 5-6 speeds... at least that's what they tell us!

and to answer some of those other questions, the 300 will be a decent amount more... i'd say real money about 6 grand difference. back seat has lots more room... driving it feels a lot bigger... rwd based rather than fwd based... fuel consumption is rated a decent amount better on the 200...

[Jaeger]

$40k.  Yowza.  And peeps were ragging on the price of the Sonata!    If I could find $40k for this thing, I'm sure I could find a few extra grand for a Genesis - which is at a whole different level.

Anyway, looking forward to James' thoughts on the car, and how it compares to the Hyundai apart from price.  This is another car that I think look better in person than in pics.  Interior does not appeal.

A Genesis V6 with the similar level of equipment, safety tech etc. is $55K.
I see a lot of reviews of cars where they point out the top level is near, what is the starting price, for a more expensive car. No one shopping for a car with all the tech is likely interested in the base model of anything. I like the Genesis as well but would cost close to 20K more after taxes for the Tech model. A similar equipped Acura TLX would be about 10K more. Compare apples to apples.

I am comparing apples to apples.  I am considering what apple I would buy with low $40k dollars to spend.  That will get me different kinds of apples, but they are still all apples.  For the Genesis apple I may have to forego some tech toys for a car that is otherwise better in every single respect.  Buyers shop to a budget more than they shop to a spec sheet.  They more likely say I need / want x type of car and my budget is Y.  They don't generally say, I'm shopping for a car with nav and sunroof.

[wing]

Well some do, some don't.

I know people that assume more features is better no matter what.

They would argue that their $30k kia is way better than your $100k Porsche because they have lane departure and a heated steering wheel

[EV-Light]

saw one of these the other day and thought the design was inoffensive. Wish they would have delivered more because the car kinda looks outdated compared with the competition (with a couple exceptions)

[dirtyjeffer]

They would argue that their $30k kia is way better than your $100k Porsche because they have lane departure and a heated steering wheel

i take it you don't own a car with a heated steering wheel? 

[Noto]

Buyers shop to a budget more than they shop to a spec sheet.  They more likely say I need / want x type of car and my budget is Y.  They don't generally say, I'm shopping for a car with nav and sunroof.

I actually tend to agree with this (sorry, wing!).  Of course, that's not to the exclusion of all other thought processes (sorry, Jaeger!).

...but I far more frequently hear people saying "I have $x to spend, what's the best car I can get?" or "I want a CUV, and have a budget of $x, what are my options?"

__________________________________________________________
Day 2; FIGHT!

Ah, THAT's what you meant by disjointed.  I agree that I don't think the 200 will age all that well.  I already think it looks a little too rounded when I see it on the street - the back end looks MUCH better than the front/side.  As far as the interior is concerned, I kind of like the two-tone steering wheel if it matches, but I think you're probably right about it not ageing well.

The only thing I have to say about the shifter is that I hate when a shifter gets in the way - I'd much rather have a rotating knob (but never what MB did with the stalk shifters...ugh), but I've already seen 9gags referring to the Chryfi shift knob (like Jaguar's, but apparently they don't get any flak for it).  I can't find the original 9gag post, but here's a reddit one for the RAM:
http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/26ya4m/the_least_manly_way_to_shift_a_truck_dodge_ram/

I also think Lincoln will fail with its use of buttons to shift.

[OliverD]

Buyers shop to a budget more than they shop to a spec sheet.  They more likely say I need / want x type of car and my budget is Y.  They don't generally say, I'm shopping for a car with nav and sunroof.

I actually tend to agree with this (sorry, wing!).  Of course, that's not to the exclusion of all other thought processes (sorry, Jaeger!).

...but I far more frequently hear people saying "I have $x to spend, what's the best car I can get?" or "I want a CUV, and have a budget of $x, what are my options?

But that doesn't mean that features and specs aren't a priority. Someone might say "what's the best car for $40k?" and choose something that is fully loaded at that price over a base model "luxury" car so that they can get the features they want.

[Jaeger]

Buyers shop to a budget more than they shop to a spec sheet.  They more likely say I need / want x type of car and my budget is Y.  They don't generally say, I'm shopping for a car with nav and sunroof.

I actually tend to agree with this (sorry, wing!).  Of course, that's not to the exclusion of all other thought processes (sorry, Jaeger!).

...but I far more frequently hear people saying "I have $x to spend, what's the best car I can get?" or "I want a CUV, and have a budget of $x, what are my options?"

That's my experience as well.  It's not that options don't come into play - but they don't generally define the category of cars being considered for purchase.

I have been the designated car shopping assistant in my extended family for probably a quarter century.  The process almost always begins with I want a sedan, SUV, whatever and my budget is x.  Nobody has ever said at the outset "I want a heated steering wheel and dual zone climate control." 

Now when they see the possible purchase options that exist at a give price point, some will go for more options, and others will go for more car.  Say, a fully loaded Civic versus a base model Accord.  But they will consider both.

Buyers with $45k to spend on a sedan aren't going to categorically reject the Genesis because you can spend less money on a Chrysler and get more toys.  Some individuals might - sure.  But it's not a general rule to the point where mentioning the two in the same breath is pointless.

[whaddaiknow]

...but I far more frequently hear people saying "I have $x to spend, what's the best car I can get?" or "I want a CUV, and have a budget of $x, what are my options?"

Ditto to that.
This is the question I will most like be asking myself in several months replacing the Crosstour.
The question will, essentially, be - I have ~$40k to spend on my next ride. What's the best bang for the buck? The limits are fairly washed out with a few exceptions that are set in stone:
1- it must be comfortable
2- it must be quiet
3- it must have decent fuel economy
4- it must be a "premium" brand
5- it must seat 2 adults and 3 kids

Gizmos are nice but not a dealbreaker. I will rather get a basic "bigger" car to meet requirements 1 & 2 than a self-parking bone-shattering penalty box. Power is nice but my daily commute yields a whopping 35km/h average speed. You get the drift.

- CPO low mileage 5-series, A6 or Berlin Taxi can be found for under $40k.
- "demo" 3, A4, Q5. I would have to wait a year for the new C-klasse prices to calm down a bit.
- Lexus ES is a solid option (IS is too cramped for my taste)
- GLA would be a fun toy to punt around for a little over $40k new but I'm not sure about the ride quality of the A-class.
- VW GTI is a good option, as well as the Avalon (yes, I put these two in one sentence)
- Diesel Grand Cherokee would be nice but too pricey
- I really like the new Highlander but I don't need such a big car as we already have an Odyssey.

A $40k-Chrysler 200C is not on the radar.

[Jaeger]

Buyers shop to a budget more than they shop to a spec sheet.  They more likely say I need / want x type of car and my budget is Y.  They don't generally say, I'm shopping for a car with nav and sunroof.

I actually tend to agree with this (sorry, wing!).  Of course, that's not to the exclusion of all other thought processes (sorry, Jaeger!).

...but I far more frequently hear people saying "I have $x to spend, what's the best car I can get?" or "I want a CUV, and have a budget of $x, what are my options?

But that doesn't mean that features and specs aren't a priority. Someone might say "what's the best car for $40k?" and choose something that is fully loaded at that price over a base model "luxury" car so that they can get the features they want.

Yes, but the point is, both options are in play.

[fixer]

The 9-speed tranny remains my concern in any and every car for which it is installed.  Acura TLX included.

Yup.....that sounds like a nightmare once out of warranty.

I dunno. isn't it made by ZF for different manufacturers? I believe they are a very reputable company and am sure they have done lots of testing. I also don't think Acura would be using it if it wasn't proven reliable.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Some people want the biggest car they can get for their budget, so will get a base mid-sizer rather than a loaded compact. Some people want the most features for their budget, so will get the loaded compact rather than a base mid-size.

This has always been the case.

The MSRP for the base Genesis is $43k. When I tick the boxes on the build site for the 200C, I get to about $35k including the current offer. That difference is a pretty big hill to climb for a lot of people.

[Jaeger]

Yes, I was going by MSRP as quoted in the article, not today's blue light super special sale price. As I think you well know.

[EV-Light]

The 9-speed tranny remains my concern in any and every car for which it is installed.  Acura TLX included.

Yup.....that sounds like a nightmare once out of warranty.

I dunno. isn't it made by ZF for different manufacturers? I believe they are a very reputable company and am sure they have done lots of testing. I also don't think Acura would be using it if it wasn't proven reliable.

It hasn't been that long since Acura/Honda had horrible transmissions, so don't assume the transmission is more reliable because Acura chose it.

[fixer]

The 9-speed tranny remains my concern in any and every car for which it is installed.  Acura TLX included.

Yup.....that sounds like a nightmare once out of warranty.

I dunno. isn't it made by ZF for different manufacturers? I believe they are a very reputable company and am sure they have done lots of testing. I also don't think Acura would be using it if it wasn't proven reliable.

It hasn't been that long since Acura/Honda had horrible transmissions, so don't assume the transmission is more reliable because Acura chose it.

Yes I realize this. My neighbor had both an Acura and Odyssey minivan that both had to have their trannies replaced. As much as it pains my to say this, I think the Japanese learn from their mistakes a lot quicker than the americans.