Topic: Test Drive: 2014 Volkswagen Passat TDI Clean Diesel

[Noto]

Lack of competition does not denote a luxury - it denotes a novelty.  As has been stated here, the 1.8T gets similar fuel economy with better performance than the TDI.  Diesels make more sense in larger cars than they do in small/family sedans.

[Solstice2006]

Lack of competition does not denote a luxury - it denotes a novelty.  As has been stated here, the 1.8T gets similar fuel economy with better performance than the TDI.  Diesels make more sense in larger cars than they do in small/family sedans.

Larger cars?  Like what?  Cars are big enough nowadays.  This seats 3 adults in the back comfortably.  Please don't let the manufacturers read this.  We need more diesels.  I agree on the extra premium kinda sucks, but if there were more diesels, I suspect the premium would be less.  The diesel that Japan has for the Mazda2 & Mazda5 would be awesome here.  The torque would seriously help the smaller cars.

[EV-Light]

I try to set aside my own bias and have opinions of cars that are founded in fact.  If I have never seen the car in the metal, I reserve judgement and speak only of what I can see.

I've never been inside a Passat.  I don't know how huge or not huge it is.  All I can see is that a 150hp, 236 ft-lb diesel engine is being priced similarly to (if not higher than) the V6 or Turbo models of its competitors.  Yes, the diesel is considered an "upgraded" engine, but consumers are essentially asked to pay more to spend less (i.e. pay more for the engine to spend less on fuel).  This makes sense when the diesel is far more expensive than the engine it replaces, but I question the cost of the TDI over the 1.8T...I mean, both are turbocharged, so you can't claim more expensive that way.  Both have the same # of cylinders - and yes, the TDI will be more expensive for the thicker block, DEF treatment plumbing, etc.

I think VW is trying to become a "premium" brand over its competitors...positioning itself, like Buick, as above the masses, but below the luxury.  That's fine, but then I have to see what 'more' you get for your buck.  $36,000 is a lot of money for a bread and butter mid-size (or large, whatever blurred category it now falls into), diesel or not.  I don't praise the Ford Fusion - I don't like a lot about it - but for $36k, you have every option ticked, including HIDs, AWD, the more powerful 2.0T, and others.  So, my criticism of the Passat, which I have never seen, touched, driven, or otherwise experienced, is that its price alone would be a hindrance to it making my shopping list.  If I came in with $36,000 to spend, and I wanted a mid-size car, I would look for the one that took my $ the farthest.  Whether that's looking for high resale value (Passat, Accord), high feature content (Fusion, Sonata), AWD capability (Legacy, Fusion), etc., I would adjust the number of cars I test drive accordingly.  At $32,000 for the loaded 1.8T, I'd be intrigued, but at $36,000 for the TDI, I feel like I'm getting ripped off.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love diesels, and I am willing to pay a bit for them, but that's over and above the base 4-cylinder engines that are underpowered.  When comparing prices, I will pay $3,000 more than the 170ish-hp engines for a 150hp diesel, but I won't pay $3,000 more for the TDI over the 240hp 2.0T in the Fusion AWD or the 3.6R in the Legacy AWD.

I believe one of the major factor for VW to price TDI that high is that there is no real competition from the other brands. Only luxury brands offer TDI on their sedans. Well, there is one exception. TDI from Chevy Cruze. And ever for Cruze the price difference between non-TDI and TDI is 3.7k$. Which is a lot and in line of what VW charges.

I absolutely consider Hybrid a competition for diesel powered vehicles. Wouldn't you?

[Northernridge]

I try to set aside my own bias and have opinions of cars that are founded in fact.  If I have never seen the car in the metal, I reserve judgement and speak only of what I can see.

I've never been inside a Passat.  I don't know how huge or not huge it is.  All I can see is that a 150hp, 236 ft-lb diesel engine is being priced similarly to (if not higher than) the V6 or Turbo models of its competitors.  Yes, the diesel is considered an "upgraded" engine, but consumers are essentially asked to pay more to spend less (i.e. pay more for the engine to spend less on fuel).  This makes sense when the diesel is far more expensive than the engine it replaces, but I question the cost of the TDI over the 1.8T...I mean, both are turbocharged, so you can't claim more expensive that way.  Both have the same # of cylinders - and yes, the TDI will be more expensive for the thicker block, DEF treatment plumbing, etc.

I think VW is trying to become a "premium" brand over its competitors...positioning itself, like Buick, as above the masses, but below the luxury.  That's fine, but then I have to see what 'more' you get for your buck.  $36,000 is a lot of money for a bread and butter mid-size (or large, whatever blurred category it now falls into), diesel or not.  I don't praise the Ford Fusion - I don't like a lot about it - but for $36k, you have every option ticked, including HIDs, AWD, the more powerful 2.0T, and others.  So, my criticism of the Passat, which I have never seen, touched, driven, or otherwise experienced, is that its price alone would be a hindrance to it making my shopping list.  If I came in with $36,000 to spend, and I wanted a mid-size car, I would look for the one that took my $ the farthest.  Whether that's looking for high resale value (Passat, Accord), high feature content (Fusion, Sonata), AWD capability (Legacy, Fusion), etc., I would adjust the number of cars I test drive accordingly.  At $32,000 for the loaded 1.8T, I'd be intrigued, but at $36,000 for the TDI, I feel like I'm getting ripped off.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love diesels, and I am willing to pay a bit for them, but that's over and above the base 4-cylinder engines that are underpowered.  When comparing prices, I will pay $3,000 more than the 170ish-hp engines for a 150hp diesel, but I won't pay $3,000 more for the TDI over the 240hp 2.0T in the Fusion AWD or the 3.6R in the Legacy AWD.

That's a life flaw – I seek to embrace my biases. 

[dkaz]

I've never been inside a Passat.  I don't know how huge or not huge it is. 

The back row is limo like. It's an anti-Mazda 6.

[Solstice2006]

I've never been inside a Passat.  I don't know how huge or not huge it is. 

The back row is limo like. It's an anti-Mazda 6.

That's one of the things that I like and dislike.  It doesn't feel European enough.  I would feel like I am in a huge boat (interior space wise). 

[bombastic]

Lack of competition does not denote a luxury - it denotes a novelty.  As has been stated here, the 1.8T gets similar fuel economy with better performance than the TDI.  Diesels make more sense in larger cars than they do in small/family sedans.

I didn't say that TDI = luxury. The only mentioning was that all German Luxury brands offer TDI. Where in the mainstream there is no competition for the VW TDI, except Cruze which is equally expensive, right?

[bombastic]

I try to set aside my own bias and have opinions of cars that are founded in fact.  If I have never seen the car in the metal, I reserve judgement and speak only of what I can see.

I've never been inside a Passat.  I don't know how huge or not huge it is.  All I can see is that a 150hp, 236 ft-lb diesel engine is being priced similarly to (if not higher than) the V6 or Turbo models of its competitors.  Yes, the diesel is considered an "upgraded" engine, but consumers are essentially asked to pay more to spend less (i.e. pay more for the engine to spend less on fuel).  This makes sense when the diesel is far more expensive than the engine it replaces, but I question the cost of the TDI over the 1.8T...I mean, both are turbocharged, so you can't claim more expensive that way.  Both have the same # of cylinders - and yes, the TDI will be more expensive for the thicker block, DEF treatment plumbing, etc.

I think VW is trying to become a "premium" brand over its competitors...positioning itself, like Buick, as above the masses, but below the luxury.  That's fine, but then I have to see what 'more' you get for your buck.  $36,000 is a lot of money for a bread and butter mid-size (or large, whatever blurred category it now falls into), diesel or not.  I don't praise the Ford Fusion - I don't like a lot about it - but for $36k, you have every option ticked, including HIDs, AWD, the more powerful 2.0T, and others.  So, my criticism of the Passat, which I have never seen, touched, driven, or otherwise experienced, is that its price alone would be a hindrance to it making my shopping list.  If I came in with $36,000 to spend, and I wanted a mid-size car, I would look for the one that took my $ the farthest.  Whether that's looking for high resale value (Passat, Accord), high feature content (Fusion, Sonata), AWD capability (Legacy, Fusion), etc., I would adjust the number of cars I test drive accordingly.  At $32,000 for the loaded 1.8T, I'd be intrigued, but at $36,000 for the TDI, I feel like I'm getting ripped off.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love diesels, and I am willing to pay a bit for them, but that's over and above the base 4-cylinder engines that are underpowered.  When comparing prices, I will pay $3,000 more than the 170ish-hp engines for a 150hp diesel, but I won't pay $3,000 more for the TDI over the 240hp 2.0T in the Fusion AWD or the 3.6R in the Legacy AWD.

I believe one of the major factor for VW to price TDI that high is that there is no real competition from the other brands. Only luxury brands offer TDI on their sedans. Well, there is one exception. TDI from Chevy Cruze. And ever for Cruze the price difference between non-TDI and TDI is 3.7k$. Which is a lot and in line of what VW charges.

I absolutely consider Hybrid a competition for diesel powered vehicles. Wouldn't you?

Well, not directly. Quite a different technology. But price wise, yes, they are comparable.

[marcus_go]

TDI is seems hard to justify for many but I think the extra premium is worth it. We have a 2001 Jetta TDI in the family purchased brand new. There were 3 other gas engines that we could have ordered: 2.0, 1.8T or VR6. The TDI has by far been a solid investment returning excellent economy and very low cost of ownership over the last 13 years and 200k km. Don't believe all those stories about German cars taking a ride on the back of the flat deck every week. Take a look on the classifieds and find that almost any TDI is worth several thousand more than a comparable gasser model suggests a pretty good value. If I recall correctly the TDI was only an extra $1500 over the standard 2.0 engine. There is no question that resale is better on the TDI and you will get more than what you originally paid for the diesel engine back when you sell.

I agree that the new Passat is a bit bland especially compared to previous versions and yes it does lack some tech equipment at this price but I would still rather have this Passat TDI over a comparable mid-size domestic or import. We need more diesels in the marketplace.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I took a look last winter at national average prices for diesel and regular gasoline. Over the course of the previous 12 months, they averaged out pretty evenly.

However, in late January, in Regina, diesel got up to 15¢ more than regular gasoline. This summer it was pretty much even, but in the last month, the spread has already hit 5¢. So depending on fuel prices and driving conditions, diesel may simply not be a benefit.

[soj]

What's remarkable in this review is the same old story line of hey it's not really diesel like (compared to what; GM's misadventures in the 80's?), it's really quite normal and civilized just like we said when we reviewed the same drive train in the Golf and Jetta, except that this time you have to fork over $36K for more room and comfort with an exterior design that has about as much sex appeal as a stuffed turnip. 

In fairness that's the message between the lines but it appears to be missed by many of the readers.  The demographic for this car is:
 
1) Ye olde Benz diesel buyer, bigger comfortable car, frugal engine that one can drive for 300K+ kms and brag to your friends about how far you can go on one tank.  Better yet the wrinkly old farts can even get it with a manual so they can point to the fact that the youg'uns are really pussies.

2) Its the guy/gal that logs 50K+ kms/yr in all weather for work on a company budget and needs to project a certain discrete image to his or her clients without coming across as ostentatious. 

3) Those that just want a comfortable ride that insulates them from the increasingly wild fuel price swings and don't care one iota whether they can they can beat an Accord V6 in a stoplight drag.

There you have it, if you want honk off a stop light don't bother; if you're into bling this ain't for you; if you want to project: I've arrived, get a ..... fill in as appropriate .......!  With our low fuel prices, we in NA tend to forget that a diesel Passat is seen as an intelligent albeit slightly boring vehicle choice in Europe.

     

[greengs]

As I said previously, diesel Passat starts under 26K.  So you have a choice.  36k is for the loaded one.  Difference between 1.8T and TDI is $2600 per trim.  At 1L/100kms difference at $1.30/L it would take 200,000kms to pay off.  At 2L/100kms it's 100,000 kms.  That's if my math hasn't failed me 

[Noto]

I've never been inside a Passat.  I don't know how huge or not huge it is. 

The back row is limo like. It's an anti-Mazda 6.

Oooh, then I like it

I simply take issue with the pricing of the as-tested model and VW's position that it is superior to its competition in every way, thereby commanding a premium.  Good for it for thinking that way, and for selling cars in the volumes that they do, but I won't be one of their customers until pricing becomes more in line with reality.  There's no need for VW to do that as I'm a small fish in a small pond (Canada).

...and besides, I prefer C-segment sedans or compact CUVs

[dirtyjeffer]

i've sat in a Passat when the new one was launched a couple of years ago...while it doesn't look too much different on the outside from the Jetta, it is massive inside...the comments about rear being "limo like" are not an exaggeration...they did a great job making a vehicle with plenty of space...as much as a fan of diesels i am, i too would take a serious look at the 1.8T...it seems to get very good praise.

[tpl]

it pains me to see that europe getting a much better looking and equipped version of the passat.....and a wagon version....and more hp version of the tdi with 240hp... and led headlights.....america is responsible for this!!!

Well actually Canada is responsible.   There is no GOOD reason why Canada could not allow any EU spec car to be imported 'as is' as the regulations are so close now.  Some manufacturers would still bring in US spec vehicles but you'd be able to import your own if you chose. The CAW would whine of course.
I suspect we would not like the private import price of a GDM Passat tho'


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[dirtyjeffer]

Well actually Canada is responsible.   There is no GOOD reason why Canada could not allow any EU spec car to be imported 'as is' as the regulations are so close now.  Some manufacturers would still bring in US spec vehicles but you'd be able to import your own if you chose. The CAW would whine of course.
I suspect we would not like the private import price of a GDM Passat tho'

perhaps CETA will bring all these nice Euro cars over??...be ready, in 2016 our showrooms will be flooded with AWD, diesel wagons. 

[Solstice2006]

don't forget manual! 

[tpl]

Well actually Canada is responsible.   There is no GOOD reason why Canada could not allow any EU spec car to be imported 'as is' as the regulations are so close now.  Some manufacturers would still bring in US spec vehicles but you'd be able to import your own if you chose. The CAW would whine of course.
I suspect we would not like the private import price of a GDM Passat tho'

perhaps CETA will bring all these nice Euro cars over??...be ready, in 2016 our showrooms will be flooded with AWD, diesel wagons. 

I had hoped so but I doubt it.  We may see a change if the USA does free trade with Europe but I bet not.

[OliverD]

Well actually Canada is responsible.   There is no GOOD reason why Canada could not allow any EU spec car to be imported 'as is' as the regulations are so close now.  Some manufacturers would still bring in US spec vehicles but you'd be able to import your own if you chose. The CAW would whine of course.
I suspect we would not like the private import price of a GDM Passat tho'

I dunno about that. Canada used to be allow Euro-spec vehicles to be imported but the only notable one we got under that arrangement was the 1994 BMW M3.