Topic: Test Drive: 2014 Volkswagen Passat TDI Clean Diesel

[bombastic]

Actually the value leader in my opinion is the Fusion...you get all the goodies for $34k (BLIS, etc...) and on top of that free AWD

Yeah, Ford is a good proposition. But you forgot the engine. 36K is for a Passat TDI. Go for a Passat  1.8T and you might have it for 32.5K$. Then Ford is not as good as it looks price wise.

It is...the 1.8T DOES not compete with Ford's 2.0T. There's 80hp difference between them....you'd have to compare the VW Passat 3.6 with Ford's 2.0T.

Whatever. VW is known of underestimating its engine output. As of Passat 3.6 it is a V6. A completely different world than Ford 2.0T.

[OliverD]

As for "please check the interior space," now you're starting to sound like a d!ck who works at a car rental agency.  The Kia Rio is NOT a fricken INTERMEDIATE-sized car no matter what your interior f*cking dimensions say.  I was once told that a Corolla is a "full-size" car because the backseat has good legroom...ain't nothin' gonna me off more than stupid lies to grab more of my cash.  Don't buy into that bullsh!t.

You're the one sounding like a d!ck with this nonsensical rent.

[greengs]

Without getting into what's a better deal having spent time in both Passat is way way more spacious than Fusion.  When you're inside it feels like the two are in different classes space wise.

As far as TDI, if I were to get a TDI passat I'd go for the 26k Trendline one. 

[bombastic]

Actually the value leader in my opinion is the Fusion...you get all the goodies for $34k (BLIS, etc...) and on top of that free AWD

Yeah, Ford is a good proposition. But you forgot the engine. 36K is for a Passat TDI. Go for a Passat  1.8T and you might have it for 32.5K$. Then Ford is not as good as it looks price wise.

Disagree.

For $32k now (with employee pricing) you can get a loaded Fusion Titanium 2.0T AWD.  That blows the 1.8T FWD in the Passat right off the road with its laminar wake.

- Disagree? So your Fusion will blow ANY midsize mainstream car in the same price category, right?

First you compare with Sonatta 2.0T with Passat TDI. Now you come with the V6. They are all premium engines with different purposes. As of the bigger, please check the interior space, you'll see that Passat IS bigger.

Because as a consumer, that is what people do.  "Why would I pay more to save on fuel?  I'd rather stretch the extra $3,000 to get the diesel towards $3,000 in fuel."  "Why would I buy a 150hp car that costs more than a loaded model from the competition with 270ish hp for $3,000 cheaper?"

SOME may think the diesel is worth it, but others will think the way I outline above.

As for "please check the interior space," now you're starting to sound like a d!ck who works at a car rental agency.  The Kia Rio is NOT a fricken INTERMEDIATE-sized car no matter what your interior f*cking dimensions say.  I was once told that a Corolla is a "full-size" car because the backseat has good legroom...ain't nothin' gonna me off more than stupid lies to grab more of my cash.  Don't buy into that bullsh!t.

- As I said, Passat is bigger than the other. Your post proved that. "Marginally" bigger, yes. So you sound like a d!ck by putting your WRX against Passat. Heck man, give up your crusade against Passat.

[bombastic]

Look, I know you're on the defensive because you own a Passat, and maybe you overpaid, and maybe you got a great deal.  I know you love your car - that's amazing.

...but objective comments don't warrant your need to fight off every comment made here.

True, I own a Passat and I got a great deal. I don't try to fight every comment here. NoTo is known in trashing German cars. Most cases without a good reason. Or, you can always find a reason....for any car....

[JRM]

Actually the value leader in my opinion is the Fusion...you get all the goodies for $34k (BLIS, etc...) and on top of that free AWD

Yeah, Ford is a good proposition. But you forgot the engine. 36K is for a Passat TDI. Go for a Passat  1.8T and you might have it for 32.5K$. Then Ford is not as good as it looks price wise.

It is...the 1.8T DOES not compete with Ford's 2.0T. There's 80hp difference between them....you'd have to compare the VW Passat 3.6 with Ford's 2.0T.

The 1.8 is obviously understated in both Hp and tq.  Believe me, it competes well with the Fusion 2.0.

[EV-Light]

Actually the value leader in my opinion is the Fusion...you get all the goodies for $34k (BLIS, etc...) and on top of that free AWD

Yeah, Ford is a good proposition. But you forgot the engine. 36K is for a Passat TDI. Go for a Passat  1.8T and you might have it for 32.5K$. Then Ford is not as good as it looks price wise.

It is...the 1.8T DOES not compete with Ford's 2.0T. There's 80hp difference between them....you'd have to compare the VW Passat 3.6 with Ford's 2.0T.

The 1.8 is obviously understated in both Hp and tq.  Believe me, it competes well with the Fusion 2.0.

sure!

Ford Fusion 2.0T
The automatic's paddle shifters add to the sportiness of the Titanium, but the 1.6 manual has a better fun factor because of its chassis feel and powertrain liveliness. Still, there's no denying the Titanium is the fastest Fusion on the block at 6.7 seconds to 60. The quarter-mile passes in 15.1 seconds at 91.6 mph, and despite the added AWD heft, its beefier brakes stop it from 60 mph in 117 feet.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1209_2013_ford_fusion_first_test/#ixzz3EoVKgXaK

VW Passat 1.8T
In our instrumented testing, the Passat 1.8T trounced its 2.5-liter sibling. Not only did it hit 60 mph from a standstill a full second quicker (7.8 seconds versus 8.8 seconds), but it nailed the quarter-mile mark in 15.9 seconds at 88.5 mph, a huge improvement from the 2.5's 16.6 seconds/85.1 mph time.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1402_2014_volkswagen_passat_sport_first_test/#ixzz3EoWPLZXA

[Solstice2006]

Look, I know you're on the defensive because you own a Passat, and maybe you overpaid, and maybe you got a great deal.  I know you love your car - that's amazing.

...but objective comments don't warrant your need to fight off every comment made here.

True, I own a Passat and I got a great deal. I don't try to fight every comment here. NoTo is known in trashing German cars. Most cases without a good reason. Or, you can always find a reason....for any car....

Don't forget any GM car....

[Solstice2006]

Without getting into what's a better deal having spent time in both Passat is way way more spacious than Fusion.  When you're inside it feels like the two are in different classes space wise.

As far as TDI, if I were to get a TDI passat I'd go for the 26k Trendline one.

i
Strongly agree, don't care what the dimensions say, the rear legroom and trunk are huge in this Passat.  Comparable to full size sedans like the Impala, feels bigger than the Taurus. 

I would also go for the Trendline as well.  Since the Mazda6, isn't available in diesel, this could make it to the short list.  Manual across the board like Mazda, simple layout, not like many newer vehicles like Ford, and Acura just to name a couple. 

So on my short list for sedans: Mazda6 GS manual, VW Passat TDI Trendline manual, Accord V6 coupe manual (if the kids are old enough to get themselves in)

[JRM]

I got 5.9 l/100 kms, according to the trip computer, yesterday with my Passat 1.8 tsi from London to Pettawawa driving at up to 125 kms/hr.  that's just .1 l/100 km less than the TDI test.  Don't see any need to spend thousands more for the tdi.

[mixmanmash]

I can say that I found the interior of the Fusion cramped and trunk space (shape) small compared to the limo like Passat.  Even the Accord has more interior space than the Fusion.

[dkaz]

Look, I know you're on the defensive because you own a Passat, and maybe you overpaid, and maybe you got a great deal.  I know you love your car - that's amazing.

...but objective comments don't warrant your need to fight off every comment made here.

True, I own a Passat and I got a great deal. I don't try to fight every comment here. NoTo is known in trashing German cars. Most cases without a good reason. Or, you can always find a reason....for any car....

Don't forget any GM car....

He trashes Mazdas too. He doesn't discriminate.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Look, I know you're on the defensive because you own a Passat, and maybe you overpaid, and maybe you got a great deal.  I know you love your car - that's amazing.

...but objective comments don't warrant your need to fight off every comment made here.

True, I own a Passat and I got a great deal. I don't try to fight every comment here. NoTo is known in trashing German cars. Most cases without a good reason. Or, you can always find a reason....for any car....

Don't forget any GM car....

He trashes Mazdas too. He doesn't discriminate.

, I thought I was only to trash Mazda 

[bombastic]

I got 5.9 l/100 kms, according to the trip computer, yesterday with my Passat 1.8 tsi from London to Pettawawa driving at up to 125 kms/hr.  that's just .1 l/100 km less than the TDI test.  Don't see any need to spend thousands more for the tdi.

Strongly agree. 1.8T is a good engine. No much need for a TDI anymore. For torque maybe..

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Interior dimensions based on CR measurements with a 5'10" (178cm) person in each seating position.

[bombastic]

Interior dimensions based on CR measurements with a 5'10" (178cm) person in each seating position.

Looks like Sonata is bigger than the Camry   

[Noto]

Look, I know you're on the defensive because you own a Passat, and maybe you overpaid, and maybe you got a great deal.  I know you love your car - that's amazing.

...but objective comments don't warrant your need to fight off every comment made here.

True, I own a Passat and I got a great deal. I don't try to fight every comment here. NoTo is known in trashing German cars. Most cases without a good reason. Or, you can always find a reason....for any car....

Don't forget any GM car....

He trashes Mazdas too. He doesn't discriminate.

Please find a single post of mine whereby I trash a single German brand.  GM or Chryfi, for sure, but German?  Come on.

And DKaz, I don't trash Mazdas.  I find the Mazda6 cramped, but if you recall, I posted my own review of the Mazda6 saying that it absolutely blew me away.
http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php/topic,88958.msg1023001.html#msg1023001

[dkaz]

And DKaz, I don't trash Mazdas.  I find the Mazda6 cramped, but if you recall, I posted my own review of the Mazda6 saying that it absolutely blew me away.
http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php/topic,88958.msg1023001.html#msg1023001

Ok ok. Just the side bolsters.   But they seemed to go the German route for the 3rd gen 3 and 6, so less side bolsters yet still surprisingly supportive on tight turns.

[Noto]

I try to set aside my own bias and have opinions of cars that are founded in fact.  If I have never seen the car in the metal, I reserve judgement and speak only of what I can see.

I've never been inside a Passat.  I don't know how huge or not huge it is.  All I can see is that a 150hp, 236 ft-lb diesel engine is being priced similarly to (if not higher than) the V6 or Turbo models of its competitors.  Yes, the diesel is considered an "upgraded" engine, but consumers are essentially asked to pay more to spend less (i.e. pay more for the engine to spend less on fuel).  This makes sense when the diesel is far more expensive than the engine it replaces, but I question the cost of the TDI over the 1.8T...I mean, both are turbocharged, so you can't claim more expensive that way.  Both have the same # of cylinders - and yes, the TDI will be more expensive for the thicker block, DEF treatment plumbing, etc.

I think VW is trying to become a "premium" brand over its competitors...positioning itself, like Buick, as above the masses, but below the luxury.  That's fine, but then I have to see what 'more' you get for your buck.  $36,000 is a lot of money for a bread and butter mid-size (or large, whatever blurred category it now falls into), diesel or not.  I don't praise the Ford Fusion - I don't like a lot about it - but for $36k, you have every option ticked, including HIDs, AWD, the more powerful 2.0T, and others.  So, my criticism of the Passat, which I have never seen, touched, driven, or otherwise experienced, is that its price alone would be a hindrance to it making my shopping list.  If I came in with $36,000 to spend, and I wanted a mid-size car, I would look for the one that took my $ the farthest.  Whether that's looking for high resale value (Passat, Accord), high feature content (Fusion, Sonata), AWD capability (Legacy, Fusion), etc., I would adjust the number of cars I test drive accordingly.  At $32,000 for the loaded 1.8T, I'd be intrigued, but at $36,000 for the TDI, I feel like I'm getting ripped off.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love diesels, and I am willing to pay a bit for them, but that's over and above the base 4-cylinder engines that are underpowered.  When comparing prices, I will pay $3,000 more than the 170ish-hp engines for a 150hp diesel, but I won't pay $3,000 more for the TDI over the 240hp 2.0T in the Fusion AWD or the 3.6R in the Legacy AWD.

[bombastic]

I try to set aside my own bias and have opinions of cars that are founded in fact.  If I have never seen the car in the metal, I reserve judgement and speak only of what I can see.

I've never been inside a Passat.  I don't know how huge or not huge it is.  All I can see is that a 150hp, 236 ft-lb diesel engine is being priced similarly to (if not higher than) the V6 or Turbo models of its competitors.  Yes, the diesel is considered an "upgraded" engine, but consumers are essentially asked to pay more to spend less (i.e. pay more for the engine to spend less on fuel).  This makes sense when the diesel is far more expensive than the engine it replaces, but I question the cost of the TDI over the 1.8T...I mean, both are turbocharged, so you can't claim more expensive that way.  Both have the same # of cylinders - and yes, the TDI will be more expensive for the thicker block, DEF treatment plumbing, etc.

I think VW is trying to become a "premium" brand over its competitors...positioning itself, like Buick, as above the masses, but below the luxury.  That's fine, but then I have to see what 'more' you get for your buck.  $36,000 is a lot of money for a bread and butter mid-size (or large, whatever blurred category it now falls into), diesel or not.  I don't praise the Ford Fusion - I don't like a lot about it - but for $36k, you have every option ticked, including HIDs, AWD, the more powerful 2.0T, and others.  So, my criticism of the Passat, which I have never seen, touched, driven, or otherwise experienced, is that its price alone would be a hindrance to it making my shopping list.  If I came in with $36,000 to spend, and I wanted a mid-size car, I would look for the one that took my $ the farthest.  Whether that's looking for high resale value (Passat, Accord), high feature content (Fusion, Sonata), AWD capability (Legacy, Fusion), etc., I would adjust the number of cars I test drive accordingly.  At $32,000 for the loaded 1.8T, I'd be intrigued, but at $36,000 for the TDI, I feel like I'm getting ripped off.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love diesels, and I am willing to pay a bit for them, but that's over and above the base 4-cylinder engines that are underpowered.  When comparing prices, I will pay $3,000 more than the 170ish-hp engines for a 150hp diesel, but I won't pay $3,000 more for the TDI over the 240hp 2.0T in the Fusion AWD or the 3.6R in the Legacy AWD.

I believe one of the major factor for VW to price TDI that high is that there is no real competition from the other brands. Only luxury brands offer TDI on their sedans. Well, there is one exception. TDI from Chevy Cruze. And ever for Cruze the price difference between non-TDI and TDI is 3.7k$. Which is a lot and in line of what VW charges.