Topic: Marchionne On Next Minivan - "It's A Stunning Vehicle"

[Autos_Editor]

Windsor assembly plant will shutdown for 12 weeks to retool for next-generation Town and Country

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[tooscoops]

as you noted.. i just worry about lack of vans in the market for that downtime... especially if that 12 weeks turns into 18... such as every retooling seems to do.

glad there is a new one coming... they almost need to go back to having two vans.. keep this current one as the cheap people mover and build the t&c to actually be competitive with the other vans and not just undercut their price.

[Noto]

they almost need to go back to having two vans.. keep this current one as the cheap people mover and build the t&c to actually be competitive with the other vans and not just undercut their price.

Sounds like that's the plan:

“It’s very complicated because we’re going to be running both products (next generation and current models) at the same time.”

I think it's like the Chevy Impala - keeping the old for the cheat fleets.

...with that being said, I find it odd - keeping the old will surely hurt resale values of the outdated models because the newer one is available, but fleets (like Enterprise) rely on the resale value of the vans to operate.  I'm curious to see what vans are stocked by rental agencies (new or old).

The automaker plans to market one minivan under the Chrysler nameplate and eventually phase out the Dodge Grand Caravan model. It also plans to launch a plug-in hybrid version of the new minivan.

Me thinks that'll be the winner.  Fuel economy is a big sore spot, and many soccer mom minivans really never leave town.  So long as there's no range anxiety (i.e. tank of gas onboard), this is exactly what the Dr. ordered.  I'm guessing the stow n' go seats won't be available with the PHEV version, though.

On a quick google search, I see the new model will feature:
1) 9-speed auto *face palm*
2) possibly AWD (though this conflicts with the CEO's statement saying that AWD is not a priority)
3) hybrid AND PHEV models
4) 'major' suspension changes
5) new tracks for the sliding doors to allow for a sloping roofline (*cough* this makes sense for a minivan, HOW?  I'm guessing, if I were to be positive, that it will allow for a minivan-based SUV)
6) sliding doors open by a similar kick-activated motion (a la Ford)
7) Stow n' Go system to be revised and simplified
8.) middle row pivoting seats for easier ingress/egress to/from the 3rd row without having to take out child seats (smart!!!)

[Rupert]

   I think we have all seen photo's of the rumoured new van posted on the web. It seems to me that Stow & Go has to be treated very carefully because as S&G goes so too will the van itself. The feature has been a patently successful one and still is. It is at the dividing line between...more than all of the others and...well...the others. The current van is compact and tight skinned...when considering what it has to accomplish, whilst still having an elegant appearance...even though the current model is almost 8 years old now. It will be a tough act to follow. I would just put another crease in the rear door and a fresh grill. I don't know about batteries. Something will have to give because it's big enough already. Forget about all wheel drive. The handling of this van is already 'plenty good' with rear coils and especially so with load levelling rear shock/struts.

[Kris78]

I just hope that they are able to stay within shouting distance of the old prices. Say what you will about the driving dynamics, but the lower trim level Caravans offer crazy value!

[dkaz]

I've seen a few concept photos of the new Town & Country and they don't particularly look great to me.

I think all minivans have rear coils lol. The torsion beam setup similar to the Sienna and Sedona is certainly inoffensive and comfortable on the highway.

The stow & go may arguably be Chrysler's bread and butter, but the seats are uncomfortable. I preferred the fixed captains they had in the 08-10 models that swivel and go, and even the bench seat that's in the Canada Value Package. They could still offer it on the lower trims but for me to seriously look at one, they would have to have a eight passenger model which would not work with stow & go. They should also focus on getting an AWD option back on the market.

Are dealers in a rush to buy up remaining 2014s?

[Noto]

I just hope that they are able to stay within shouting distance of the old prices.

The old Caravans will still be built for fleet/cheap purchase, but the new model, moving to the Chrysler brand only, signals that its pricing will be in line with all other minivans.  There is a 0% chance that you'll get a Chrysler 700 or whatever it'll be called, for $19,995 on a Canada Value Package.  It'll start around $27k-30k like the others and will top out at $45k-48k , also like the others.

[dkaz]

I can see them continuing to offer the old CVP until no one wants to buy them anymore. Only the CVP. If you want anything beyond the basic power windows/power door locks/air/cruise, you need to step up to the 700C which will start up in the SXT + some packages standard so it at least matches the Sienna base/Odyssey LX/Sedona L at around the $28k range, then put an upgrade package in there at $30k.  The second trim level could match the current Town & Country base Touring model at $32k where you start to get auto climate control and power sliding doors and liftgate, and optional 8 seater upgrade which deletes stow & go. An AWD upgrade could also start at this price point.

All speculation, we'll see what they come out with. I'm definitely interested in this potential hybrid offering.

[Rupert]

   Well the previous Caravan had leaf spring rear suspension. Don't think that any of the other vans have coil with Nivomat levelling rear suspension. Which is a good option for towing trailers. Maybe the stage has been reached wherein providing everything complete with AWD yet will create a monster. What you need is a Tardis on wheels.
   How about a double deck van.

[dkaz]

The Sienna AWD is no bigger than the standard Sienna which is no bigger than the Grand Caravan and is anything but a monster. Just because we don't need AWD doesn't mean other people don't want that option. If Chrysler is going to potentially lose sales going upmarket, they should at least differentiate themselves.

You need a shock and a coil for any suspension system, no ifs ands or buts about it. And while none of the other manufacturers have auto levelling as a factory option, it's pretty easy to retrofit into a lot of cars. The basic option is to put a bag in the coil that you can inflate or deflate at any gas station. The mid level option is to take that same bag in a coil and install an air compressor. The third is to eliminate the coil completely and have a fully adjustable ride height, which is the route I'm going next minivan. So I can dump the van to the ground when I park it and then raise it up to 4x4 mode when it's snowing out.

Basic air bag in coil setup:

[Noto]

What you need is a Tardis on wheels.

^^^
Close enough?

Just because we don't need AWD doesn't mean other people don't want that option. If Chrysler is going to potentially lose sales going upmarket, they should at least differentiate themselves.

While I agree with you entirely, Chryfi has stated that the next gen minivan will NOT be AWD.  I think they should change their mind, but so it has been written, and so it shall be done (or not done, whatever).

[dkaz]

^^^
Close enough?

While I agree with you entirely, Chryfi has stated that the next gen minivan will NOT be AWD.  I think they should change their mind, but so it has been written, and so it shall be done (or not done, whatever).

LOL at the Tardis on a trailer.

So that makes it three conflicting statements between AWD a possibility, AWD not a priority, and no AWD. lol.

[Rupert]

How about AWD as an impossibility? You can't satisfy everyone here but it seems that the Caravan has satisfied the most by a long shot over the years. If you need more comfort then go for one of the 'others' and give up on versatility. Comfort is what they can offer...stow and go...not so. I don't think many would want to pump up their vehicle.

[dkaz]

Why are you so adamant on denying people a choice?

They're a popular seller because they were cheap. If Chrysler's going to go upmarket and removing price as an advantage over the others, they should offer another reason to go with them over everyone else.

Remember the stow & go seats were not in the $20k CVP or SE Plus models. You had to fork over $25k for an SXT for those. And while I don't deny the versatility of the Super Stow & Go seats, I found the mechanism and method awkward. So in terms of that vs. lifting ~70 lb captains chairs out of my Odyssey after a simple two step process of removing and reinstalling, it's a draw.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

From what I remember, Stow'N Go seats were a bigger draw from focus groups than AWD, so that's how they went. As currently implemented, it was an either/or choice, and they went with what people wanted. I can't argue with that logic.

Removing seats from a van is a big deal with most van shoppers. It and price are the two reasons why people said they went with a Chrysler. I think some people are missing how important that feature is.

[HeliDriver]

You need a shock and a coil for any suspension system, no ifs ands or buts about it. ...

Corvette doesn't have any coils. A lot of pickup trucks don't have any coils. Our SUV has no coils ...

[Noto]

From what I remember, Stow'N Go seats were a bigger draw from focus groups than AWD, so that's how they went. As currently implemented, it was an either/or choice, and they went with what people wanted. I can't argue with that logic.

Removing seats from a van is a big deal with most van shoppers. It and price are the two reasons why people said they went with a Chrysler. I think some people are missing how important that feature is.

I remember that as well - but I don't think it should be either/or any more given Chrysler's new patent filed for a revised mechanism for stow n' go.

Having really, REALLY comfortable captains chairs vs Stow n' Go is an either/or - you can't fold a seat that comfortable, but AWD can be compact, or in the case of a hybrid, can be electrified (and therefore won't impinge on space under the 2nd row floor).

Look, I don't care - I wouldn't likely be buying this any way (I'm not a minivan guy), but for many shoppers in Canada, AWD is very important and stow n' go for the 3rd row is more important than the second.

I agree that lugging out the captain's chairs is a massive pain, but most buyers won't be removing the middle row all that often and would rather have the AWD safety net.

It's as said above - it's about choice.  If both options can be had, then bring it on!  If not, then appease the masses.  Simple.

[dkaz]

Corvette doesn't have any coils. A lot of pickup trucks don't have any coils. Our SUV has no coils ...

Whoops, forgot about the leaf springs. My bad. I believe one or two generations of the Celica or Celica Supra had leaf springs.

From what I remember, Stow'N Go seats were a bigger draw from focus groups than AWD, so that's how they went. As currently implemented, it was an either/or choice, and they went with what people wanted. I can't argue with that logic.

Removing seats from a van is a big deal with most van shoppers. It and price are the two reasons why people said they went with a Chrysler. I think some people are missing how important that feature is.

I remember that as well - but I don't think it should be either/or any more given Chrysler's new patent filed for a revised mechanism for stow n' go.

Having really, REALLY comfortable captains chairs vs Stow n' Go is an either/or - you can't fold a seat that comfortable, but AWD can be compact, or in the case of a hybrid, can be electrified (and therefore won't impinge on space under the 2nd row floor).

Look, I don't care - I wouldn't likely be buying this any way (I'm not a minivan guy), but for many shoppers in Canada, AWD is very important and stow n' go for the 3rd row is more important than the second.

I agree that lugging out the captain's chairs is a massive pain, but most buyers won't be removing the middle row all that often and would rather have the AWD safety net.

It's as said above - it's about choice.  If both options can be had, then bring it on!  If not, then appease the masses.  Simple.

I've removed the 2nd row seats in my vans a total of four times in the last year. Not that big of a deal. The 3rd row seats are a bigger issue as they get moved around every two-three weeks, but the 3rd row seats in the Grand Caravan, Town & Country, Sedona, Sienna, and Odyssey are all very comfy as they have more room to work with and result in a deep, spacious cargo well when the 3rd row is in use.

[HeliDriver]

Corvette doesn't have any coils. A lot of pickup trucks don't have any coils. Our SUV has no coils ...

Whoops, forgot about the leaf springs. My bad. I believe one or two generations of the Celica or Celica Supra had leaf springs.

And don't forget about torsion bars. They're mostly a truck thing, but I think a few passenger cars have used them as well.

[tooscoops]

awd hasn't been available on the grand caravan for a decade.. and it is still int he top 5 vehicles sold in canada.... i don't think the awd will do anything to significantly change the sales numbers. not nearly as much as changing the pricing structure.

the customers who i get in here who actually say they want the awd are also the customers who can't get financed on a cvp van... a broad generalization, yes, but it seems to be the case... these are fwd vans... they handle fine... yes, even in canada. even when awd was available i ONLY ever sold top of the line t&c's with it... so maybe 2 a year... numbers i can find say the sienna sells about 17% of their vans in awd... considering they are the only awd van, that wouldn't be the take rate as 100% of awd van buyers must get the toyota right now... also consider that the big sales numbers are due to the low price offerings, and that knocks the take rate down again...

i'd say chrysler would be lucky to sell 7% awd if it was offered... not worthwhile to sacrifice the seats and other engineering for that small a target audience.

as for the air bags... people buying a van do not want to do more work to their vehicles... that's why they buy new. they want turn key ready and under warranty. sure there are a few that will but it is such a small amount it doesn't warrant a comparison.

as for denying people a choice... adding all these extra options (even if you don't take them) will increase the cost of the vehicle... due to increased r&d, increased engineering, increased part orders, increased labour and more, the costs will be spread throughout the lineup... so your base vehicle price goes up to cover a portion of the overhead caused by adding these choices. so basically, a choice isn't always a good thing.