Topic: Day-by-Day Review: 2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T Ultimate; Day 1

[mixmanmash]

You may have missed this note about Car and Driver's test:  TEST NOTES: The intercooler hose clamp fell off twice during our test, which may or may not have triggered a lower-power mode; we will retest the 2.0T as soon as possible, at which point the performance numbers may improve.

I didn't read it all.

...if the IC hose clamp fell off, then this just helps to hurt Hyundai's overall reputation for reliability.  That's bad.

I've only driven a 2009 335i x-drive in 'reduced-power' mode (when the fuel pump was 'going').  If this can still hit 60mph in 8s in low power mode, I'd be hella impressed!!! (not with reliability, but with power/performance)

Clamps falling off is a pretty simple problem really.  It happens.

[mixmanmash]

I disagree, actually.  The old 2.0T (still used in the Kia Optima) made 274hp at 6,000rpm and 269ft-lbs at 1,750rpm.  The new 2.0T (Sonata only) is 245hp at 6,000rpm and 260ft-lbs at 1,350rpm.

While 1,750rpm may not seem that much above 1,350rpm, in real world driving, it will likely make a difference.  Huge?  no.  ...but do 29 peak hp make that much of a difference?  Especially as most drivers use their cars, I'd suspect the answer is a massive 'no'.

How often do you take your cars to redline in day-to-day driving?

You are welcom to your view, but I am pretty sure I would notice the missing ~30 hp, and not the lower torque peak.  There's not a lot of time to notice much between 1350 and 1750 rpm when accelerating - it's over in an instant.

While I agree with your point, I wouldn't take the manufacturer's word for anything.  I want to see a dyno comparison on the same dyno under the same conditions.

I have seen the same car tuned differently provide 2 different results.  Attached is a great comparison on my car.  The green feels faster on the street above 5000 RPM because of the sharp rise in power.  However, the red was certainly faster off the line and had way more oomph down low.  Nothing changed except for the tuning of the engine (including cam gear adjustment and fuel/timing maps).

Which one would you rather drive daily?

Nope.  That is my 300zx.  And both runs are without the variable valve timing (more like phasing) operational.  Next year it will hopefully be operational and I will report back with the results.

[Oldsguy]

I disagree, actually.  The old 2.0T (still used in the Kia Optima) made 274hp at 6,000rpm and 269ft-lbs at 1,750rpm.  The new 2.0T (Sonata only) is 245hp at 6,000rpm and 260ft-lbs at 1,350rpm.

Except nobody actually believed the old engine ever made 274HP. The performance numbers never supported that overstated figure.

Also, James, since I'm bugging you already, how does the new interior fare against the old one?


vs

On the new car, the thing that bugs me most is that mismatch of upper vs lower sections in the center stack.  The overly-wide air vent/screen section doesn't work with the radio/HVAC section below it. Looks like two different dashboards were glued on top of each other. Very awkward-looking.

[Oldsguy]

You may have missed this note about Car and Driver's test:  TEST NOTES: The intercooler hose clamp fell off twice during our test, which may or may not have triggered a lower-power mode; we will retest the 2.0T as soon as possible, at which point the performance numbers may improve.

I didn't read it all.

...if the IC hose clamp fell off, then this just helps to hurt Hyundai's overall reputation for reliability.  That's bad.

I've only driven a 2009 335i x-drive in 'reduced-power' mode (when the fuel pump was 'going').  If this can still hit 60mph in 8s in low power mode, I'd be hella impressed!!! (not with reliability, but with power/performance)

Clamps falling off is a pretty simple problem really.  It happens.

Twice??? 

I really don't need to say it, but I will: just imagine the hilarity here if that happened to a GM car.

[wing]

My tester smells like coolant a bit, maybe I should check the clamps?

[Noto]

Clamps falling off is a pretty simple problem really.  It happens.

Does it happen?  Has CR reported that before?  I have a 3.5 year old turbo car and it's never happened to me.  FIL had 3 turbo bimmers, never happened to him over 8 years.  Not that my sample size is large, but I don't see it as an "it happens" kind of problem.

[Noto]

I really don't need to say it, but I will: just imagine the hilarity here if that happened to a GM car.

well, fixer would say it doesn't matter - in fact, he'd probably say it was sabotage.

I, on the other hand... would probably say the same thing - "doesn't help the reputation for reliability"

I defended the 'vette that blew its engine.  The IC hoses here only concern me because it shows that Hyundai still doesn't have the attention to detail that other longer-standing brands do.  I don't mind unforeseen issues - they can be fixed/rectified.  I just don't like general trends.  This wouldn't stop me from buying the Sonata if I wanted one, but the 2006 model having its rear suspension rust out, etc. concerns me.

[Bubba]

[
Twice??? 

I really don't need to say it, but I will: just imagine the hilarity here if that happened to a GM car.

It was a pre-production model.  Hopefully, the clamps won't be a problem on production models.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-hyundai-sonata-sport-20t-test-review

[tooscoops]

Hey next week I have the 200, how apt eh?

doing a comparo?  or just a back to back? hope it's comparable... so many of them the reviewers are getting are the s package with awd.

[Blueprint]

[
Twice??? 

I really don't need to say it, but I will: just imagine the hilarity here if that happened to a GM car.

It was a pre-production model.  Hopefully, the clamps won't be a problem on production models.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-hyundai-sonata-sport-20t-test-review

...but if InsideLine Edmund's is also reporting a loss of 1.9s in 0-60, are the clamps really at fault here?

I drove a pre-production press car once. Pieces of the overhead console fell off - makes one wonder about the rest when you're in the passing lane 

[redman]

Maybe biased here, but I'll take a last gen Subaru Legacy GT with AWD for my money. The 2.5-liter Turbo four produces 265 horsepower. 0-60 mph in an aggressive 5.4 seconds, and the quarter-mile was dispatched in 14.1 seconds at 100 mph http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2011-subaru-legacy-25gt-limited-first-drive-review

[greengs]

As mentioned Edmunds got an even slower time than C&D so maybe the clamps fell off that car too? 

It does have 30hp less but the difference shouln't be that great.  A base 4 cyl Accord is otherwise faster than a turbo Sonata. 

[Fobroader]

Maybe biased here, but I'll take a last gen Subaru Legacy GT with AWD for my money. The 2.5-liter Turbo four produces 265 horsepower. 0-60 mph in an aggressive 5.4 seconds, and the quarter-mile was dispatched in 14.1 seconds at 100 mph http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2011-subaru-legacy-25gt-limited-first-drive-review

A right proper little mid size sedan....pity that Subaru has started to focus on the Toyota end of the spectrum and we will not see an exciting Legacy again.

[tooscoops]

performance wise.. sure... but i'd wager a huge portion of the mid-sized buying public give about 4/5ths of f-all about performance. i found the interior of the legacy livable at best. and the nvh to be... well.. subaru.. not "bad", but more noise than most expect.

aiming at different buyers.

[Fobroader]

performance wise.. sure... but i'd wager a huge portion of the mid-sized buying public give about 4/5ths of f-all about performance. i found the interior of the legacy livable at best. and the nvh to be... well.. subaru.. not "bad", but more noise than most expect.

aiming at different buyers.

Oh yeah, finding a used Legacy is hard....a Legacy GT...pfffft....fools errand. See for me, the power, traction and handling of the GT was a much larger factor than the fact it had whatever touch plastics and realistic looking plastic wood....but I know I'm a minority.

[mixmanmash]

Clamps falling off is a pretty simple problem really.  It happens.

Does it happen?  Has CR reported that before?  I have a 3.5 year old turbo car and it's never happened to me.  FIL had 3 turbo bimmers, never happened to him over 8 years.  Not that my sample size is large, but I don't see it as an "it happens" kind of problem.

Like others said, pre-production model.  And yes it does happen.  Sometimes you get a defective clamp.  I wonder how much boost pressure they are running.

I've seen 300ZXs running 30+ psi of boost and clamps were blowing off on the dyno.  Swapped them with better clamps and problem solved.

[fixer]

I really don't need to say it, but I will: just imagine the hilarity here if that happened to a GM car.

well, fixer would say it doesn't matter - in fact, he'd probably say it was sabotage.

I, on the other hand... would probably say the same thing - "doesn't help the reputation for reliability"

I defended the 'vette that blew its engine.  The IC hoses here only concern me because it shows that Hyundai still doesn't have the attention to detail that other longer-standing brands do.  I don't mind unforeseen issues - they can be fixed/rectified.  I just don't like general trends.  This wouldn't stop me from buying the Sonata if I wanted one, but the 2006 model having its rear suspension rust out, etc. concerns me.

fixer doesn't care, sh1t happens. Beside who would want to sabotage a Hyundai?

[Noto]

Beside who would want to sabotage a Hyundai?

For once, I agree with you 

[Oldsguy]

Maybe biased here, but I'll take a last gen Subaru Legacy GT with AWD for my money. The 2.5-liter Turbo four produces 265 horsepower. 0-60 mph in an aggressive 5.4 seconds, and the quarter-mile was dispatched in 14.1 seconds at 100 mph

Yes, but are its clamps tight? 

[mixmanmash]

Maybe biased here, but I'll take a last gen Subaru Legacy GT with AWD for my money. The 2.5-liter Turbo four produces 265 horsepower. 0-60 mph in an aggressive 5.4 seconds, and the quarter-mile was dispatched in 14.1 seconds at 100 mph

Yes, but are its clamps tight? 

If I did the torque on them, yes!   

Sometimes overtorquing worm gear clamps can cause them to fail (loosen up).