Topic: Car Batteries and Electronics in new cars

[Noto]

I'm not moaning or whining too much about these, but two issues this weekend:

1) Corolla failed to start this morning.  Wasn't driven since Friday evening.  On the 6th try, with giving 'er some gas, it finally caught.  I'm guessing a battery and will take it in tomorrow (assuming that I can start it up to get home from work today).  It's likely just the battery as the car ran totally fine once it started, and the car is already 4 years old - what else can one expect?  I'm not upset about this.

...but it leads me to what I will moan/whine about:

2) Lady Noto FINALLY came back to Canada from NY State for < 36 hours (poor lass) - first time since June.  I decided to treat her to a lovely staycation (i.e. vacation in the city - I'll post in the vacations thread about that).  Before we departed to get on the subway (we live just north of the GTA), we went for some sushi and took MIL's 2014 Mazda3 GS.  I turned on the car in the garage and put it into reverse.  The backup camera didn't start - just showed the Mazda screen on the glued-on iPad.  I figured, meh, and just kept going.  I parked beside a 2015 WRX in that beautiful bright blue (less than the midnight, though) and saw a guy in his 60s get into the WRX with his wife.  I laughed uncontrollably, then asked him what he thought.  His answer: "I love the CVT.  I can finally drive an Impreza now with some power!!  It's smooth, gets great fuel economy in "I" mode (showing an average of 7.9L/100km!!!), and he's excited about the winter.  ...but I digress (as I should, since the WRX is amazing).

After dinner, we got back into the Mazda3 and turned on the car.  It wouldn't start.  I tried again, and it started, but the iPad screen failed to turn on.  I pushed every button, nothing.  I opened the fuse panel and found that somehow it blew a fuse.  The thing has <3,000km on it.  That, to me, is ridiculous. 

It reminded me of FIL's old Jag XF, which would fail to start (battery) if not driven for 6+ days (he often went away for business, so every week he'd have MIL go for a drive or have CAA come and boost it).  I fear that as in-car connected technology advances, the batteries will have to be updated.  It hasn't happened yet, and I wish it would.

/rant

[dr_spock]

It might be worthwhile to invest in one of those power boost pack.  At least you can jump start it without calling CAA and waiting. Cars are never really OFF unless you disconnect the battery.  The alarm system, remote door control, etc. are always sucking juice.

[Fobroader]

Either a booster pack of a battery maintainer might be worthwile if you keep having these problems......

[EV-Light]

http://www.amazon.ca/Clore-Automotive-JNC300XL-Jump-N-Carry-Ultraportable/dp/B000XQ9MGE/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1411411508&sr=1-2&keywords=battery+booster

[Noto]

It might be worthwhile to invest in one of those power boost pack.  At least you can jump start it without calling CAA and waiting. Cars are never really OFF unless you disconnect the battery.  The alarm system, remote door control, etc. are always sucking juice.

I don't normally have these problems...we'll see if the Corolla starts in half hour when I head home.

MIL may want to invest in one of those, but they already have one from the time of his Jag

The funny thing is, FIL's CX-5, which he's had for 8 months longer than the Mazda3 has never had such an issue.  He doesn't have a glue-on iPad though.

BLAME iPADs! 

[Slow_lane]

The good

I leave my 2005 Mazda parked outside unused for 3 months in a Montreal winter and it starts when I get home (no charger hooked up). Once started I do a quick maneuver (just to clear the garage door to get my BMW out) and then put it on a battery charger.

The Bad

The BMW is treated better. It stays in heated garage on trickle charger. However during cold weather driving if I use the great seat heaters and steering wheel heater on short trips around town the charging system cannot keep up and goes into a safe mode where is shuts down a lot of the electrical options. It sucks.

[Firm]

The issue here is that the technology and resulting energy requirements in cars have advanced greatly in the last decade or so, yet the technology in the common automotive battery has remained largely unchanged. This is why 'AGM' type batteries, which used to be only used by enthusiasts with purpose built cars (racers, off-road rigs, classics, etc) are quickly becoming very popular with OEs. Most of the Germans are now using exclusively AGM and Chyrsler is right behind with a percentage of their 2015s comign with AGM (Grand Cherokee, Durango for sure). I also believe anything that uses 'stop/start' technology generally runs an AGM battery to help cope with the additional abuse.
There are a ton of benefits to making the switch, but most relavent to this discussion is the fact that these batteries recharge faster (accept more of the alternators output) and are much better able to recover to full capacity after being discharged...Whereas a standard battery is usually permanently damaged and will never operate a 100% after it's been drained down. They also have a lower rate of self discharge for cars left sitting awhile.

[johngenx]

I have an AGM battery in the Miata - as it's in the trunk and the car can st for periods of time - and today I'd try to buy an AGM battery for our other cars if they needed a replacement.  They're not much more $$ than a standard battery (well, not compared to the big premium that Opitma fetched) and worth the dough I think.

That said, those inexpensive Kirkland batteries have developed a terrific reputation and it seems that they're excellent - and even better considering the pricing.

[Firm]

Yeah, an AGM is about $50 extra at CT, well worth the $ IMO.

When I replace a battery I go AGM if it's available. The Firebird got one about 3 years ago and it's still going strong. My dads 95 Caddy STS got one last winter and he said it made a huge difference in the way the car started...Since new that big V8 was always slow to turn over.

[Noto]

The issue here is that the technology and resulting energy requirements in cars have advanced greatly in the last decade or so, yet the technology in the common automotive battery has remained largely unchanged.

^^this.  That's my point.

I parked the Corolla yesterday outside the office from ~7am until 8:45pm (long day ).  When I got to it in the parking lot, unlocked the door remotely, turned the key, and voila, started perfectly.  This morning, much of the same.  I think over the weekend, I opened the doors a bunch of times, listened to the radio while sitting inside without turning on the car, etc.  That probably drained it a bit.  I'm guessing (lawyers don't know much about automotive technicalities) that the battery is NEARING the end of its usable life, but will still work fine for now-ish.

I'm a little fearful about the winter, though, as it's parked outside while I'm at work (garage at home).

Are battery sizes universal?  i.e. can I get this for the Corolla?:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-eliminator-ultra-flat-plate-agm-automotive-battery-0102420p.html

Cheapest battery they sell is $84.99, this AGM one is $139.99...I'd say a pretty reasonable price upgrade.

[dr_spock]

You can take your battery to have it tested at places like Canadian Tire. 

[Noto]

You can take your battery to have it tested at places like Canadian Tire.

'Rolla has gone about 18,000km since its last service (oops, my bad ) - it's all part of the standard check-up.

...but when they tell me the battery's almost gone, can I fit any battery, or am I stuck with whatever OEM sh!t the dealership carries?

[Fobroader]

You can take your battery to have it tested at places like Canadian Tire.

'Rolla has gone about 18,000km since its last service (oops, my bad ) - it's all part of the standard check-up.

...but when they tell me the battery's almost gone, can I fit any battery, or am I stuck with whatever OEM sh!t the dealership carries?

Find out what Group your battery is in, I believe yours is a group 35, and then go shopping for the battery with the best warranty and highest cold cranking amps.

[Firm]

Batteries are not universal, but they come in about 40-45 different standard "sizes". Those sizes cover 99.9% of the Canadian vehicle market. Your Corolla (assuming it's a 1.8L?) takes "Group Size 35", this is a very popular size and any brand battery in that size would work with your car. I did a quick check and the Canadian Tire Eliminator AGM battery does come in that size; it's $169.99, on sale right now for $149.99.

[Noto]

Batteries are not universal, but they come in about 40-45 different standard "sizes". Those sizes cover 99.9% of the Canadian vehicle market. Your Corolla (assuming it's a 1.8L?) takes "Group Size 35", this is a very popular size and any brand battery in that size would work with your car. I did a quick check and the Canadian Tire Eliminator AGM battery does come in that size; it's $169.99, on sale right now for $149.99.

Many thanks!

[Firm]

You can take your battery to have it tested at places like Canadian Tire.

'Rolla has gone about 18,000km since its last service (oops, my bad ) - it's all part of the standard check-up.

...but when they tell me the battery's almost gone, can I fit any battery, or am I stuck with whatever OEM sh!t the dealership carries?

Find out what Group your battery is in, I believe yours is a group 35, and then go shopping for the battery with the best warranty and highest cold cranking amps.

Little known, but the CCA thing is a bit of a misconception. High CCA is a good thing, but too much can mean squeezing too much lead into the battery, therefore less active acid, and decreased longevity.

[Fobroader]

You can take your battery to have it tested at places like Canadian Tire.

'Rolla has gone about 18,000km since its last service (oops, my bad ) - it's all part of the standard check-up.

...but when they tell me the battery's almost gone, can I fit any battery, or am I stuck with whatever OEM sh!t the dealership carries?

Find out what Group your battery is in, I believe yours is a group 35, and then go shopping for the battery with the best warranty and highest cold cranking amps.

Little known, but the CCA thing is a bit of a misconception. High CCA is a good thing, but too much can mean squeezing too much lead into the battery, therefore less active acid, and decreased longevity.

When I forget to plug my truck in at -40....Ill take a bit of decreased longevity. 

[PJungnitsch]

That's pretty quick failure for a newish battery.

What sort of voltage is the engine running? Are the battery connections clean and tight? (Internally, where they grip the terminal).

My Vibe was charging at good voltage and the connections looked great, what got me was some not-visible-to-the-eye corrosion in battery connectors/posts. Cleaned that up with a battery brush and washed the corrosion away, works fine now after recharging.

I ordered a load tester to check the battery out, thirty bucks:

http://www.amazon.ca/Schumacher-BT-100-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B000AMBOI0

[Firm]

The good

I leave my 2005 Mazda parked outside unused for 3 months in a Montreal winter and it starts when I get home (no charger hooked up). Once started I do a quick maneuver (just to clear the garage door to get my BMW out) and then put it on a battery charger.

The Bad

The BMW is treated better. It stays in heated garage on trickle charger. However during cold weather driving if I use the great seat heaters and steering wheel heater on short trips around town the charging system cannot keep up and goes into a safe mode where is shuts down a lot of the electrical options. It sucks.

Replace your alternator on the BMW, or have it tested at least. Sounds like it's failing and not generating enough power any longer. Or you have aftermarket addons that are drawing too much power?

Chances are that's not an alternator issue. He's simply drawing enough to drain the battery and when it's that cold out the chemical reactions inside the battery are slowed down, making it difficult for the battery to even accept the charge that the alternator is trying to put into it. On a longer trip the battery would warm up and the alternator would sufficiently charge it.

[Noto]

Not that I expect any responses to this, but an update:

Corolla was taken in for scheduled maintenance today and battery is completely fine.  I suspect I just opened too many doors, listened to the radio, etc. without starting the car for a weekend.  Car has started fine every time since.