Topic: First Drive: 2015 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Clean Diesel

[dkaz]

Ah.

AdBlue is $160 approximately every 16,000km. I think the parts cost is $40 but I think VW may have made it difficult to DIY.

[mmret]

how much is this adBlue thing anyways?

Generic stuff:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/automotive/oils-fluids/cleaners-degreasers/air1-pure-diesel-exhaust-fluid-def-0380769p.html#.VAYyrWM_w0E

Seems to be rather easy to refill, at least on MB where its in the trunk. Like washer fluid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie5Tg8PVjKs

Video shows him using the special threaded nose bottle that comes from the dealer. However I'm 99% sure you can just use a thin nose funnel and pour stuff in there.

[mixmanmash]

Wish I had tested the TDI when I bought mine, but I'd bet discounts would be harder to get.

See, I used to be a firm believer in the TDI, but now I'm not.

While the fuel savings are notable (36mpg diesel vs 27mpg 1.8T, combined ratings) and the power difference is not, the volatile diesel prices, now coupled with the cost of the ad-blue treatment (and the reliability of the system/potential for freezing lines in the winter) raises questions for me.

...and the upfront cost.

Volatile Diesel prices?  I think it's about as volatile as Gasoline.  In winter, prices of diesel tend to go up more because of heating oil costs.

Ad-Blue treatment costs?  You're clearly in the dark on how much is used.  You're talking about $40 worth of the stuff approximately every 15k kms.

Reliability of the system / freezing in the winter?  Some manufacturers have had problems, many others have not and from what I read specific to MB products, it's not often that people have had this issue.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

For the Jetta, the filler is under a panel in the trunk. Easy to get to. I think the Golf gets an AdBlue filler next to the diesel fuel filler.

[Noto]

I guess I'm just comparing what it used to be to what it now is.  Free vs now the occasional DEF fill.  Not a huge cost or inconvenience, but it is something to consider for those that don't DIY.  May be $40 at Canuck Tire, but if VW charges $160, on top of the rest of the maintenance, then it makes for a very expensive annual check up.

[mmret]

I think most DEF tanks should have an electric heater. Quite possibly linked to the block heater.

The Jetta TDI came with a block heater as standard...possibly a sign although we never had to use it. It was quite a clattery endeavor though on the coldest of days to get that sucker started....but it always started.

Regarding volatile prices...eh not really. Heating oil front month is 15% vol, RBOB is 18% over last 250 days.

Also the fwd curve on HO is 3cents/gal wide right now for the first 12 contracts, whereas its 20c/gal on gasoline. Gasoline has a much more obvious summer/winter seasonality to it.

[mixmanmash]

I guess I'm just comparing what it used to be to what it now is.  Free vs now the occasional DEF fill.  Not a huge cost or inconvenience, but it is something to consider for those that don't DIY.  May be $40 at Canuck Tire, but if VW charges $160, on top of the rest of the maintenance, then it makes for a very expensive annual check up.

Do you pay someone to fill up gas for you?  It's pretty much the same thing.  Consumers should become informed about their vehicles so they can deal with these items.

I think most DEF tanks should have an electric heater. Quite possibly linked to the block heater.

Yes, the DEF tanks do have electric heaters.  No, they are not linked to the block heater and are run off of 12V DC.  Once you start the car, if the temperature is cold enough it turns on the heater.  It allows you to drive the car even if the DEF hasn't melted as it knows it will melt in short order.  Think of it as a cold temperature operation mode. 

[WRX_Pilot]

I'm less worried about adblue, and more about DPF problems, for those who don't drive enough highway for it to properly clean itself.

[mixmanmash]

I'm less worried about adblue, and more about DPF problems, for those who don't drive enough highway for it to properly clean itself.

This would be my primary concern as well.  Short commutes will kill it.

[hemusbull]

Ah.

AdBlue is $160 approximately every 16,000km. I think the parts cost is $40 but I think VW may have made it difficult to DIY.

Absolutely right! This is one of main VW strategy directions - to build DIY hostile vehicles. From oil change to engine head removal the diyorselvers need unique tools, jigs and equipment. The old school German mechanic engineering is dead... Long live German cars!

[Noto]

Do you pay someone to fill up gas for you?  It's pretty much the same thing.  Consumers should become informed about their vehicles so they can deal with these items.

"should" and "will" are two very different things.  Like Rob Ford, I argue devilishly for the little people

I'm less worried about adblue, and more about DPF problems, for those who don't drive enough highway for it to properly clean itself.

This would be my primary concern as well.  Short commutes will kill it.

...and like Rob Ford, I will now talk only about my own interests:

My long city commute includes a short highway jaunt

[EV-Light]

I'm less worried about adblue, and more about DPF problems, for those who don't drive enough highway for it to properly clean itself.

oh boy! informed myself about DPF and it's ugly...it would be a disaster in my daily commute!

[dkaz]

The DPF just needs 15 minutes of constant speed to clean it out?

Then again, my wife and I just drive 15 minutes in stop and go.

[mixmanmash]

The DPF just needs 15 minutes of constant speed to clean it out?

Then again, my wife and I just drive 15 minutes in stop and go.

Yep, but that 15 minutes I believe is once the engine is up to temperature.  This is precisely the reason why I like my dad's 2006 E320 CDI.  No DPF.  Just oxidation catalysts and a EGR.  Extremely simple emissions system.

DPFs essentially have to waste fuel in order to regenerate.  This is why you don't see a fuel economy improvement from the 2006 E320CDI (3.2L I6 Turbo diesel) to the 2007 E320 Bluetec (3.0L V6 Turbo diesel), despite the newer model having a more efficient engine and a 7 speed transmission versus the old 5 speed.  The newer model is hobbled with more emissions systems.

[tpl]

The DPF just needs 15 minutes of constant speed to clean it out?

Then again, my wife and I just drive 15 minutes in stop and go.

Yep, but that 15 minutes I believe is once the engine is up to temperature.  This is precisely the reason why I like my dad's 2006 E320 CDI.  No DPF.  Just oxidation catalysts and a EGR.  Extremely simple emissions system.

DPFs essentially have to waste fuel in order to regenerate.  This is why you don't see a fuel economy improvement from the 2006 E320CDI (3.2L I6 Turbo diesel) to the 2007 E320 Bluetec (3.0L V6 Turbo diesel), despite the newer model having a more efficient engine and a 7 speed transmission versus the old 5 speed.  The newer model is hobbled with more emissions systems.

Blame the Americans first and the Canadians second.  The EPA knows nothing about diesels and the Canadian MOT just follows along.

[ltruong]

I think most DEF tanks should have an electric heater. Quite possibly linked to the block heater.

The Jetta TDI came with a block heater as standard...possibly a sign although we never had to use it. It was quite a clattery endeavor though on the coldest of days to get that sucker started....but it always started.

We have a 2011 tdi.  I don't think it's a block heater but a circulating heating pump that heats up and circulate radiator fluid.  I believe they all come equipped with it from factory and they have a connection point in the front bumper for the cord.  I installed an after market one on my old 2000 TDI ...I think I paid like $150 couple years ago.   

You only have to plug it an hour or two before using your vehicle and they work quite well.

[Just_A_Fan]

So, does the 2.0 L have 8 valves (paragraph 6) or 12 valves (paragraph 7)?

[dirtyjeffer]

the 8 valve is likely what is often referred to as the 2.slow...it is a basic gas engine that debuted in 1993 and is still available in base trims today (modernized a bit, but it's still old)...honestly though, despite its lack lustre performance, it's a pretty solid little engine.

[dkaz]

Despite the 2.slow name, it's surprisingly peppy in the city. The fuel economy is terrible by today's standards.

[tpl]

The 2.slow is a non-interference engine.  Potentially a good thing in the ( hopefully) unlikely event of the timing belt breaking or slipping.