Topic: First Drive: 2015 Mercedes-Benz C-Class (C 300 and C 400)

[jyarkony]

Jonathan, can you please clarify what you mean by

The C 300’s fixed suspension was poised and showed a good range of comfort and sport, though the C 400 we drove on the second day was capable of even greater flexibility

Did the C400 have the air suspension or did you see a significant difference between the C300 and C400 fixed suspensions?

Great article by the way: the most informative I have read until now on the new C Class.

Thanks.

to clarify, by flexibility i meant the range from comfort to sport. The fixed in the C 300 was suitably comfortable for a luxury car, with enough sporty handling to have a bit of fun - tires would be the issue before suspension. The C400, with its adjustability, was capable of being more comfortable (in comfort mode) and more sporty (in sport mode), and its normal middle ground setting may have been better on both counts as well to begin with. A couple days ago i would have said stick with the base suspension if possible (depending on packages), but after driving some of toronto's rough roads in a pretty hardcore sports car yesterday, i think that wider range of suspension tuning on the fly would be a pretty nice feature for a lot of drivers.

Thanks for elaborating. One C&D article suggests to pass on the Airmatic but I was wondering if it was still not a good option for our road conditions (Mtl potholes are definitely competitive with Toronto's). However I am not sure air ride suspension is capable of giving the best handing and I would also worry about long term durability (if buying and not leasing).

In Canada Airmatic is optional (part of Sport package as mmret indicated in his option selection), on the C400 only  (it is available on the C300 in the USA).  I wish it would be a standalone option here too ($1200 US).

It is available as a standalone on the C300 - here is the answer direct from Mercedes Canada reps (with pricing!):

"The AIRMATIC Agility System (483) is:
=> available as a standalone option for $1,800 on the C 300 4MATIC sedan
=> available as part of the Sport Package for $2,800 on the C400 4MATIC sedan"

[JacobBlack]

It's a beautiful, we'll-rendered sedan, looks like. But am I the only one who wants to violently and quickly rip off that screen atop the dash??

It looks as though, right before presenting it to management, the product planner yelled out " sh/t, the nav screen! Quick, Brenda, hand me your iPad. Who's got glue?! COME ON PEOPLE, WHO'S GOT GLUE!!!"

You are not the only one but Having owned a B250 with a screen like that for a year I think that the positioning and size is much better than if it were lower and smaller. I would be happy if my current car had a screen up in the open like that.

I remember asking the Lexus guys why they did a similar thing in the NX, They said it actually makes the screen far better to use for a driver. They had a whole bit out the "display zone" vs "control zone" or something.

From a safety and ergonomics perspective it makes a lot of sense.

Here's our yarn about it: http://www.autos.ca/auto-tech/auto-tech-new-lexus-hmi-system/

[Benhaze]

Jonathan, can you please clarify what you mean by

The C 300’s fixed suspension was poised and showed a good range of comfort and sport, though the C 400 we drove on the second day was capable of even greater flexibility

Did the C400 have the air suspension or did you see a significant difference between the C300 and C400 fixed suspensions?

Great article by the way: the most informative I have read until now on the new C Class.

Thanks.

to clarify, by flexibility i meant the range from comfort to sport. The fixed in the C 300 was suitably comfortable for a luxury car, with enough sporty handling to have a bit of fun - tires would be the issue before suspension. The C400, with its adjustability, was capable of being more comfortable (in comfort mode) and more sporty (in sport mode), and its normal middle ground setting may have been better on both counts as well to begin with. A couple days ago i would have said stick with the base suspension if possible (depending on packages), but after driving some of toronto's rough roads in a pretty hardcore sports car yesterday, i think that wider range of suspension tuning on the fly would be a pretty nice feature for a lot of drivers.

Thanks for elaborating. One C&D article suggests to pass on the Airmatic but I was wondering if it was still not a good option for our road conditions (Mtl potholes are definitely competitive with Toronto's). However I am not sure air ride suspension is capable of giving the best handing and I would also worry about long term durability (if buying and not leasing).

In Canada Airmatic is optional (part of Sport package as mmret indicated in his option selection), on the C400 only  (it is available on the C300 in the USA).  I wish it would be a standalone option here too ($1200 US).

It is available as a standalone on the C300 - here is the answer direct from Mercedes Canada reps (with pricing!):

"The AIRMATIC Agility System (483) is:
=> available as a standalone option for $1,800 on the C 300 4MATIC sedan
=> available as part of the Sport Package for $2,800 on the C400 4MATIC sedan"

LOL I guess you can tell the Mercedes Canada they need to update their online configurator because it is certainly not coming up as an available option for the C300. But thanks for the information!

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It's a beautiful, we'll-rendered sedan, looks like. But am I the only one who wants to violently and quickly rip off that screen atop the dash??

It looks as though, right before presenting it to management, the product planner yelled out " sh/t, the nav screen! Quick, Brenda, hand me your iPad. Who's got glue?! COME ON PEOPLE, WHO'S GOT GLUE!!!"

You are not the only one but Having owned a B250 with a screen like that for a year I think that the positioning and size is much better than if it were lower and smaller. I would be happy if my current car had a screen up in the open like that.

I remember asking the Lexus guys why they did a similar thing in the NX, They said it actually makes the screen far better to use for a driver. They had a whole bit out the "display zone" vs "control zone" or something.

From a safety and ergonomics perspective it makes a lot of sense.

Here's our yarn about it: http://www.autos.ca/auto-tech/auto-tech-new-lexus-hmi-system/

I'd rather die in a flaming wreck than have to look at that display on a daily basis. 

[EV-Light]

It's a beautiful, we'll-rendered sedan, looks like. But am I the only one who wants to violently and quickly rip off that screen atop the dash??

It looks as though, right before presenting it to management, the product planner yelled out " sh/t, the nav screen! Quick, Brenda, hand me your iPad. Who's got glue?! COME ON PEOPLE, WHO'S GOT GLUE!!!"

You are not the only one but Having owned a B250 with a screen like that for a year I think that the positioning and size is much better than if it were lower and smaller. I would be happy if my current car had a screen up in the open like that.

I remember asking the Lexus guys why they did a similar thing in the NX, They said it actually makes the screen far better to use for a driver. They had a whole bit out the "display zone" vs "control zone" or something.

From a safety and ergonomics perspective it makes a lot of sense.

Here's our yarn about it: http://www.autos.ca/auto-tech/auto-tech-new-lexus-hmi-system/

I'd rather die in a flaming wreck than have to look at that display on a daily basis. 

what's wrong with it? I think it looks awesome!

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It looks like an afterthought. If a car has a display, I want it integrated into the dash. Chrysler has managed it with big screens, others can give excuses, but it doesn't wash with me.

[DriverJeff]

It looks like an afterthought. If a car has a display, I want it integrated into the dash. Chrysler has managed it with big screens, others can give excuses, but it doesn't wash with me.

The big Chrysler ones are mounted lower on the dash than this one.  It is a greater distance for the eyes to travel away from the road to get the information.  Fact, not an excuse.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It looks like an afterthought. If a car has a display, I want it integrated into the dash. Chrysler has managed it with big screens, others can give excuses, but it doesn't wash with me.

The big Chrysler ones are mounted lower on the dash than this one.  It is a greater distance for the eyes to travel away from the road to get the information.  Fact, not an excuse.

And this is a big deal why exactly? It's how every single dash has been since cars had instruments/contols.

Toyota made the same argument for their high mounted centre instrument cluster. It landed with a thud and they've since given up and moved back to a traditional instrument cluster. Aesthetics do matter in consumer products.

[EV-Light]

It looks like an afterthought. If a car has a display, I want it integrated into the dash. Chrysler has managed it with big screens, others can give excuses, but it doesn't wash with me.

 

This looks like an afterthought...
'oh we need NAV, darn! let's just throw in an unit and be done with it...
and oh how about some extra screen to display the temperature up top, it will look luxurious
and where do we put the on board computer data?...oh just add another screen':

[dirtyjeffer]

It looks like an afterthought. If a car has a display, I want it integrated into the dash. Chrysler has managed it with big screens, others can give excuses, but it doesn't wash with me.

The big Chrysler ones are mounted lower on the dash than this one.  It is a greater distance for the eyes to travel away from the road to get the information.  Fact, not an excuse.

And this is a big deal why exactly? It's how every single dash has been since cars had instruments/contols.

Toyota made the same argument for their high mounted centre instrument cluster. It landed with a thud and they've since given up and moved back to a traditional instrument cluster. Aesthetics do matter in consumer products.

i agree...you should be watching the road anyway, not staring at your screen...and with some brands burying a myriad of functions through multi screen menus, it simply means you need to fiddle more to do what you would normally do with the press of a button or turn of a dial...when i use my NAV, it simply speaks out when the turns are coming, etc, so there is little need to actually look at it...i think keeping the display built in to the dash not only looks more clean and "finished", but is also less distracting.

[dirtyjeffer]

This looks like an afterthought...'oh we need NAV, darn! let's just throw in an unit and be done with it...and oh how about some extra screen to show useless data, let's go for it' :

agreed, but let's not use Subaru as the industry standard please.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It looks like an afterthought. If a car has a display, I want it integrated into the dash. Chrysler has managed it with big screens, others can give excuses, but it doesn't wash with me.

 

This looks like an afterthought...
'oh we need NAV, darn! let's just throw in an unit and be done with it...
and oh how about some extra screen to display the temperature up top, it will look luxurious
and where do we put the on board computer data?...oh just add another screen':

That's integrated into the centre stack as it should be, not tacked on top like a JC Whitney special.

The fact that Subaru goes for utilitarian styling doesn't enter into it. Given their sales success, few others seem to have issues with it.

I'll gladly put up with the Subaru interior than this abortion:

[Jp45654]

I'm sure these 'tablet screen' navs tested well in some consumer opinion poll somewhere. Why else would BMW, Mercedes and a few others decide to go this route? Couldn't be because they're cheaper to manufacture right?

[Benhaze]

I'm sure these 'tablet screen' navs tested well in some consumer opinion poll somewhere. Why else would BMW, Mercedes and a few others decide to go this route? Couldn't be because they're cheaper to manufacture right?

The upper one is a motorized design that retracts in the dash. The NAV on my car is of the same design and I haven't had no reliability issues; I find it to be by far a better design than the Benz one glued on top of the dash. I prefer that location being more in the line of sight than lower on the dash but I too prefer the integrated design in the dash à la Chrysler than having to stare at one perched permanently on the upper dash. As tpl mentioned the M.-B. owner will likely get used to it but it will always remain so inelegant.

M.-B. missed a great marketing opportunity: they should have made it bigger, a real tablet with a docking station so the owners could walk around with their Mercedes-Benz tablet!

[bluelines]

The BMW one does not retract into the dash -- it just looks like it should, but it is fixed in place.

I'm sure these 'tablet screen' navs tested well in some consumer opinion poll somewhere. Why else would BMW, Mercedes and a few others decide to go this route? Couldn't be because they're cheaper to manufacture right?

The upper one is a motorized design that retracts in the dash. The NAV on my car is of the same design and I haven't had no reliability issues; I find it to be by far a better design than the Benz one glued on top of the dash. I prefer that location being more in the line of sight than lower on the dash but I too prefer the integrated design in the dash à la Chrysler than having to stare at one perched permanently on the upper dash. As tpl mentioned the M.-B. owner will likely get used to it but it will always remain so inelegant.

M.-B. missed a great marketing opportunity: they should have made it bigger, a real tablet with a docking station so the owners could walk around with their Mercedes-Benz tablet!

[OliverD]

I'm sure these 'tablet screen' navs tested well in some consumer opinion poll somewhere. Why else would BMW, Mercedes and a few others decide to go this route? Couldn't be because they're cheaper to manufacture right?

I don't think the cost difference would be anything but marginal.

Regardless, the new BMW with the "tacked on" screen looks 10x better than the old BMW, IMO.

[Benhaze]

The BMW one does not retract into the dash -- it just looks like it should, but it is fixed in place.

Is it the same for the new 2 Series? It looks like I missed that the last iteration of BMW navigation systems is moving toward fixed screens as well. Darn I still think this is an unfortunate change but it does look better integrated in the dash than M.-B. design.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The screen on the new Yukon is just as well placed, but is integrated into the dash. It also has a convenient storage spot behind it.



If GM can figure it out, there's no reason why Mercedes couldn't.

[JacobBlack]

If GM can figure it out, there's no reason why Mercedes couldn't.

If your preference is for it in the dash for aesthetic reasons that's a perfectly valid and fair criticism.
If you think that MB et al have just not "figured out how to do it" that's clearly not accurate.
They've made a very deliberate decision for a usability /safety/ergonomic perspective to do it a different way. Having driven all of the options, and even though I think Uconnect is the single-best infotainment system on the planet, I agree with their argument that having the screen atop the dash makes it easier to use and makes driving safer.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

If GM can figure it out, there's no reason why Mercedes couldn't.

If your preference is for it in the dash for aesthetic reasons that's a perfectly valid and fair criticism.
If you think that MB et al have just not "figured out how to do it" that's clearly not accurate.
They've made a very deliberate decision for a usability /safety/ergonomic perspective to do it a different way. Having driven all of the options, and even though I think Uconnect is the single-best infotainment system on the planet, I agree with their argument that having the screen atop the dash makes it easier to use and makes driving safer.

Many screens have similar locations, but are integrated into the dash. Even older MB and BMW systems were. They made a design decision to style it this way for a reason, but I have no clue why.

If ergonomics were that big of an issue, why did they then shotgun a bunch of black chiclets way down on the centre stack?