Topic: First Drive: 2015 Acura TLX

[Autos_Editor]

Acura's new TLX offers up two unique driving experiences with a frisky four or a silky six.

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[Frontier1]

This Acura I like, a lot.

[Jaeger]

Overall a very sweet ride.  They've wiped most all of the ugly off the TL.  I still don't like Honda's persistence in stuffing the nav as far away from you as possible, waaaay in the back of the Bat Cave. Particularly if the graphics are at a last-decade level, as suggested by the article.  A solution in search of a problem, IMO.  I'd much rather have the nav display closer to me (a no-cost method of making it effectively larger) and touch-screen operable. Too bad that the stick is dead, but I well understand why.

[JohnM]

These models would be the default choice for me if I were looking in this class.  Reliable, efficient and smooth with excellent handling.  Why pay more for something which is joined at the hip to the service bay.

Cheers,
John M.

[toolatecrew]

RIP best stick shift in the class.

I get that the take rate is not huge but it seemed to me that the TSX had more than a few manuals go out the door ...and my guess is that more than a few of them was purely because it was one of the few manual choices available.

[Noto]

And, if your TLX has the Precision All Wheel Steer (PAWS) system the rear wheels even toe in slightly, that is, point at one another, under high-speed breaking for improved stability. [Wait, so this car does “pizza, French fry”? – Ed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ls5j5iz2eA

LOVE IT!

The PAWS thing does make me wonder if tire wear will be uneven or more pronounced in the back...but I like the idea therein.

My issue (1st world problems...) is that I'm vehemently against 9-speed automatics, but I have a strong preference for AWD.  What's a guy to do?  Save $15k and get a base TLX, I guess!

[Great_Big_Abyss]

So, is this car based on the Accord platform?

I find their choice of transmissions a little odd.  One the one hand, I applaud the fact they're using 8 and 9-speed transmissions.  I haven't seen this much blatant innovation from Honda lately, so it's refreshing to see relatively modern technology come from them.  On the other hand, is there any other model they're using these transmissions in?  I find it odd they wouldn't want to use economies of scale when building these units.  Isn't that one of the benefits of a shared platform?  They should build the Accord 4-cyl with the CVT like it has, but then build the V6 Accord with the 9-speed from the TLX.  There is enough to justify the TLX's higher price with the SH-AWD and the four wheel steering.  Speaking of:

I'm not sure what to think about the four-wheel steering.  Having never driven such a system, I don't know the impact it makes on day-to-day driving, but my gut feeling is it wouldn't be a big difference (at legal speeds?).  I surely don't think the slight advantage in driving dynamics would outweigh the increased complexity and maintenance cost of the rear suspension.  Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Noto]

I find their choice of transmissions a little odd.  One the one hand, I applaud the fact they're using 8 and 9-speed transmissions.  I haven't seen this much blatant innovation from Honda lately, so it's refreshing to see relatively modern technology come from them. 

Whilst I would normally agree with you re: innovation, is this Honda's work, or is it a sourced product (like the venerable ZF 8-speed)?  My understanding is that the 8-speed is something special, but the 9-speed is sourced.

Quite frankly, 9-speed autos are a joke.  Far too many gears, always searching/hunting, multi-step down-shifts...I really don't like more than 7-speeds, though I'd accept 8 if properly made (a la Lexus).

As for the CVT vs 8-speed, I disagree.  While it would be cheaper (presumably), it would kill the image.  The Accord can get away with a CVT because those wishing for more sport will get a TLX (i.e. the transmissions are an up-sell).  A base TLX with a CVT would be somewhat counter-intuitive.  I don't see why the V6 TLX would get a different transmission from the I4 model, though.  That's what baffles my mind.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I find their choice of transmissions a little odd.  One the one hand, I applaud the fact they're using 8 and 9-speed transmissions.  I haven't seen this much blatant innovation from Honda lately, so it's refreshing to see relatively modern technology come from them. 

Whilst I would normally agree with you re: innovation, is this Honda's work, or is it a sourced product (like the venerable ZF 8-speed)?  My understanding is that the 8-speed is something special, but the 9-speed is sourced.

Quite frankly, 9-speed autos are a joke.  Far too many gears, always searching/hunting, multi-step down-shifts...I really don't like more than 7-speeds, though I'd accept 8 if properly made (a la Lexus).

As for the CVT vs 8-speed, I disagree.  While it would be cheaper (presumably), it would kill the image.  The Accord can get away with a CVT because those wishing for more sport will get a TLX (i.e. the transmissions are an up-sell).  A base TLX with a CVT would be somewhat counter-intuitive.  I don't see why the V6 TLX would get a different transmission from the I4 model, though.  That's what baffles my mind.

I wasn't suggesting the 4-cyl TLX get the CVT.  I agree that wouldn't be a good match.  What I was saying was it makes sense for the 4-cyl accord to have a CVT, as that is a family car with economy pretensions, but in order to make us of economies of scale they should throw either the 8-speed or 9-speed transmission from the TLX in with the V6 Accord, instead of the 6-speed auto that is currently has.  That would probably lower their cost on whatever transmission they share with the TLX/V6 Accord.

[EV-Light]

IMHO Honda is slowly killing Acura...the only thing they have in the favour right now is price - which honestly, it isn't even that great.

And it all starts with the interior...when you need to re-use the NAV/Dash from the lesser Honda Accord, how do you want to be taken seriously by people?

[whaddaiknow]

The TLX isn't perfect but is priced right and should sell well.
Close to 300 horses with AWD under $40k for a premium brand. Few, if any, can match that.

[Noto]

What I was saying was it makes sense for the 4-cyl accord to have a CVT, as that is a family car with economy pretensions, but in order to make us of economies of scale they should throw either the 8-speed or 9-speed transmission from the TLX in with the V6 Accord, instead of the 6-speed auto that is currently has.  That would probably lower their cost on whatever transmission they share with the TLX/V6 Accord.

Keeping the 6-speed they've had for years is cheaper than using a new transmission in a low-volume model (i.e. the Accord V6).  It's better to keep the better tech in the luxury brand where they can charge more for it (makes the models seem less like a re-badge, unlike the Camry/ES).  I think Acura did a very good job with packaging the TLX, but I question why bother with the 9-speed if their 8-speed is unique (IIRC, it's a DCT with a torque converter) and kinda kick-as$?  Following ChryFi's marketing strategy is never a good idea

The TLX isn't perfect but is priced right and should sell well.
Close to 300 horses with AWD under $40k for a premium brand. Few, if any, can match that.

That's always been Acura's lifeline.  Question is, would you rather a brand new TLX, or a 1 or 2 year old BMW/Audi/MB?  Most would argue that once you're talking similar money, the preference for a new car will win.  The TLX will help Acura boost sales - if only they'd fire whoever did the ILX and make some quick changes to the powertrain and pricing...

[EV-Light]

The TLX isn't perfect but is priced right and should sell well.
Close to 300 horses with AWD under $40k for a premium brand. Few, if any, can match that.

The base AWD starts at $43,890.00...which is pretty reasonable. Acura's problem is exactly that...people don't wanna buy discounted luxury....YUCK!
At that price, I'd rather buy a Hyundai Genesis....

[whaddaiknow]

The TLX isn't perfect but is priced right and should sell well.
Close to 300 horses with AWD under $40k for a premium brand. Few, if any, can match that.

The base AWD starts at $43,890.00...which is pretty reasonable. Acura's problem is exactly that...people don't wanna buy discounted luxury....YUCK!
At that price, I'd rather buy a Hyundai Genesis....

I may be wrong but the article quoted
"...
TLX will be on sale late summer 2014, with pricing from $34,990 with four-cylinder power, and $39,990 with V6 power and SH-AWD.
"

[Great_Big_Abyss]

The TLX isn't perfect but is priced right and should sell well.
Close to 300 horses with AWD under $40k for a premium brand. Few, if any, can match that.

The base AWD starts at $43,890.00...which is pretty reasonable. Acura's problem is exactly that...people don't wanna buy discounted luxury....YUCK!
At that price, I'd rather buy a Hyundai Genesis....

I wouldn't call it 'discounted luxury', but rather 'near luxury'.  I can't see myself ever having enough disposable income to afford a BMW or a MB (even a 3-series or a C-class, although those would be too small for me).  BUT, I may have enough to pony up for a $40 000 car in 5-10 years.  There is definitely a market for 'near luxury' cars that are in between top trim mainstream sedans (Accord, Altima, etc) and the full on luxo-barges (5-series, E-class, etc).  This is where the Infinities and Acuras come in, right?

AS LONG as there is enough to differentiate these cars from the mainstream cars that they're based on.  For example, I would never pick an A3 over a GLI, as it is (will) be based on the same platform, with the same engines, transmissions, etc.  At least the Acura is offering substantially different mechanicals than the Accord it is based on (the transmission choices, at least the 8-speed, starting to make more sense to me now).

[G.Bombay]

What I was saying was it makes sense for the 4-cyl accord to have a CVT, as that is a family car with economy pretensions, but in order to make us of economies of scale they should throw either the 8-speed or 9-speed transmission from the TLX in with the V6 Accord, instead of the 6-speed auto that is currently has.  That would probably lower their cost on whatever transmission they share with the TLX/V6 Accord.

Keeping the 6-speed they've had for years is cheaper than using a new transmission in a low-volume model (i.e. the Accord V6).  It's better to keep the better tech in the luxury brand where they can charge more for it (makes the models seem less like a re-badge, unlike the Camry/ES).  I think Acura did a very good job with packaging the TLX, but I question why bother with the 9-speed if their 8-speed is unique (IIRC, it's a DCT with a torque converter) and kinda kick-as$?  Following ChryFi's marketing strategy is never a good idea

The TLX isn't perfect but is priced right and should sell well.
Close to 300 horses with AWD under $40k for a premium brand. Few, if any, can match that.

That's always been Acura's lifeline.  Question is, would you rather a brand new TLX, or a 1 or 2 year old BMW/Audi/MB?  Most would argue that once you're talking similar money, the preference for a new car will win.  The TLX will help Acura boost sales - if only they'd fire whoever did the ILX and make some quick changes to the powertrain and pricing...

That's an interesting question. Most people I know who buy German luxury don't shop Japanese luxury and vice versa......both have pro's and cons.

Acura delayed the launch of the TLX to make sure they get it right, I'm sure this car will sell as it appeals to a broad spectrum of buyers.

[EV-Light]

The TLX isn't perfect but is priced right and should sell well.
Close to 300 horses with AWD under $40k for a premium brand. Few, if any, can match that.

The base AWD starts at $43,890.00...which is pretty reasonable. Acura's problem is exactly that...people don't wanna buy discounted luxury....YUCK!
At that price, I'd rather buy a Hyundai Genesis....

I wouldn't call it 'discounted luxury', but rather 'near luxury'.  I can't see myself ever having enough disposable income to afford a BMW or a MB (even a 3-series or a C-class, although those would be too small for me).  BUT, I may have enough to pony up for a $40 000 car in 5-10 years.  There is definitely a market for 'near luxury' cars that are in between top trim mainstream sedans (Accord, Altima, etc) and the full on luxo-barges (5-series, E-class, etc).  This is where the Infinities and Acuras come in, right?

AS LONG as there is enough to differentiate these cars from the mainstream cars that they're based on.  For example, I would never pick an A3 over a GLI, as it is (will) be based on the same platform, with the same engines, transmissions, etc.  At least the Acura is offering substantially different mechanicals than the Accord it is based on (the transmission choices, at least the 8-speed, starting to make more sense to me now).

What? substantially different than Honda?...even the platform is shared with the Accord. The only differences here are AWD and the transmission - which Honda already announced, will make it to their mainstream cars.

At least in the Audi vs VW, the interior is totally different....and hey the Audi also offers a different transmission - 6spd vs 7spd. Isn't that substantially different?

[Noto]

Acura's problem is exactly that...people don't wanna buy discounted luxury....YUCK!
At that price, I'd rather buy a Hyundai Genesis....

You know I like you, but to assert that people don't want to buy discounted luxury?  Are you kidding me?

"Um, I want to buy this luxury vehicle, please.  Wait, what?  It's reasonably priced?  Eff that.  I want to overpay for my vehicle!"

...and the Genesis is discounted luxury, which is ALSO why it sells well.  People LOVE discounted.  They eat that sh!t up!

[Great_Big_Abyss]

The TLX isn't perfect but is priced right and should sell well.
Close to 300 horses with AWD under $40k for a premium brand. Few, if any, can match that.

The base AWD starts at $43,890.00...which is pretty reasonable. Acura's problem is exactly that...people don't wanna buy discounted luxury....YUCK!
At that price, I'd rather buy a Hyundai Genesis....

I wouldn't call it 'discounted luxury', but rather 'near luxury'.  I can't see myself ever having enough disposable income to afford a BMW or a MB (even a 3-series or a C-class, although those would be too small for me).  BUT, I may have enough to pony up for a $40 000 car in 5-10 years.  There is definitely a market for 'near luxury' cars that are in between top trim mainstream sedans (Accord, Altima, etc) and the full on luxo-barges (5-series, E-class, etc).  This is where the Infinities and Acuras come in, right?

AS LONG as there is enough to differentiate these cars from the mainstream cars that they're based on.  For example, I would never pick an A3 over a GLI, as it is (will) be based on the same platform, with the same engines, transmissions, etc.  At least the Acura is offering substantially different mechanicals than the Accord it is based on (the transmission choices, at least the 8-speed, starting to make more sense to me now).

What? substantially different than Honda?...even the platform is shared with the Accord. The only differences here are AWD and the transmission - which Honda already announced, will make it to their mainstream cars.

At least in the Audi vs VW, the interior is totally different....and hey the Audi also offers a different transmission - 6spd vs 7spd. Isn't that substantially different?

I suppose it's a matter of perception.  I perceive the Audi to basically be a VW with an upgraded badge and nothing more (chalk it up to the VW's being so good, if you will).  And, while my head knows the TSX/TLX is an upscale version of the Accord, my perception is that you're getting more content for your money than just an Accord with a fancy badge.  Perception is what sells cars these days.  I would have no problem putting my money down on a TLX, but I would have issues with an A3.  YMMV

[EV-Light]

Acura's problem is exactly that...people don't wanna buy discounted luxury....YUCK!
At that price, I'd rather buy a Hyundai Genesis....

You know I like you, but to assert that people don't want to buy discounted luxury?  Are you kidding me?

"Um, I want to buy this luxury vehicle, please.  Wait, what?  It's reasonably priced?  Eff that.  I want to overpay for my vehicle!"

...and the Genesis is discounted luxury, which is ALSO why it sells well.  People LOVE discounted.  They eat that sh!t up!

LOL it makes sense...but you have to take perception into account here.
Maybe I'm holding Acura to a different standard, instead of thinking of it as a Lexus I should think of it as competition to Buick.