Topic: Preview: 2015 BMW X4

[tortoise]

fa·ce·tious
fəˈsēSHəs/Submit
adjective
1. treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I hate it...and the X6.

The sweatpants of BMW.

Agreed. BMW continues to dilute its brand.

The X6 was such a pointless exercise. The weight and fuel consumption of an SUV with the utility of a coupe. Couple that with a hatchback bodystyle, which is death for American sales, and has been for decades. What were they thinking?

The X6 hasn't been worth the funds required to have it federalized in NA, let alone the R&D costs. I doubt this will fare any better.

[evil_twin]

Considering they had to crash at least 800 X6's during collision testing, those numbers are shockingly low.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Considering they had to crash at least 800 X6's during collision testing, those numbers are shockingly low.

 

[jyarkony]

This thread is going to be so hateful. 

 

I know. I don't get the hate for the X6. Like it is an offense to some simply because it is not practical in terms of cargo carrying and rear passenger accommodations.

I's take the X6 over 5 Series GT or X4 over 335 GT anyday.

Indeed, but would you take an X6 over an X5? If so, why?

Yes, if i had the money to really load it up, had a bad back (which i already do), and the kids were off to college. Plenty of room for a hockey bag and we're not Costco shoppers, so I generally find the cargo areas excessive when not toting gear for the kiddies. but really I would get a Range Rover Sport... Why? because I think it looks better. But if i happened to stray a little more to the X6 styling, sure, and perhaps the lower step-in would get me in the X6 anyway since my wife did not appreciate the massive step-in height without a step bar. and X6 doesn't waste weight and components on heavy duty off-roading capability and so has the edge in on-road driving.

[jyarkony]

This thread is going to be so hateful. 

 

I know. I don't get the hate for the X6. Like it is an offense to some simply because it is not practical in terms of cargo carrying and rear passenger accommodations.

I's take the X6 over 5 Series GT or X4 over 335 GT anyday.

Probably because all of these represent vehicles that nobody ever asked for. Take a practical wagon and replace it with a GT, then does it perform like a car-based coupe? The 5GT was heavier and more cumbersome and poorer handling than the Touring, so what was the buy-in - styling only (and the sales numbers show how well that one sold). That said, I've got no idea how the sales of the X6 have been. For the X4, the answer lies in the performance numbers between a 4 series coupe, a 3 series Touring, a 335GT and the X4 - see which one wins. BMW extolls itself as a "performance" luxury manufacturer, and in my mind, loses credibility with these models (along with poor durable quality reports).   

Did anybody ask for the CLS? Mercedes took a chance and it paid off. BMW will take chances for those kinds of successes as well.

Sometimes it's not about what people ask for (people ask for the dumbest things - think The Homer), it's throwing something out there and seeing if they buy it... these are not vehicles of necessity, so it's competing with SLKs and CLAs and Evoque Coupes, 300 SRTs, FJ Cruisers, Nissan Jukes, Harleys, etc..

it's a vehicle you buy in order to say, "I don't need a minivan or to save money, I can do whatever I want!"

[tortoise]

and X6 doesn't waste weight and components on heavy duty off-roading capability and so has the edge in on-road driving.

Except the X6 weighs 4,800 lbs.

[jyarkony]

BMW dealerships are going to run out of room for all the different vehicles brochures right away...

I mentioned this in one of Hannibal's test drive threads - I'd like to see a comparison with a bunch of these "similar but not quite identical" BMWs:
X1 vs 328xi wagon vs 328 xGT (hatchback) vs X3 vs X4

Are there any significant differences between them? Or is this just 5 different perspectives of the same theme?  Good luck getting BMW to put that comparison together...

Great idea for a pop quiz! Too bad BMW will be unlikely to have those on fleet at the same time as here in our market they usually only have vehicles around during the first half year of their launch, so 335 GT will be off well before the X4s arrive.

if we can set that up we will - X4/X6 have legitimate handling advantages over X3/X5, but vs other variants?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

it's a vehicle you buy in order to say, "I don't need a minivan or to save money, I can do whatever I want!'m a douche and want to make sure everyone knows it!"

Fixed! 

[jyarkony]

and X6 doesn't waste weight and components on heavy duty off-roading capability and so has the edge in on-road driving.

Except the X6 weighs 4,800 lbs.

I didn't say it was light, just that it's not wasted... 

all of it put to good use for sound insulation and extra-heavy leather!

[SaskSpecV]

Sometimes it's not about what people ask for (people ask for the dumbest things - think The Homer),

Touche, JY! 
"And the sticker price for this car is .... 82,000 dollars?"

Actually, that's pretty close to the sticker price of the X6 as well!

Now where's those 2015 Outback specs?

[OliverD]

The X6 hasn't been worth the funds required to have it federalized in NA, let alone the R&D costs. I doubt this will fare any better.

Yet they are bringing us a second generation model, so you're clearly wrong.

[SaskSpecV]

The X6 hasn't been worth the funds required to have it federalized in NA, let alone the R&D costs. I doubt this will fare any better.

Yet they are bringing us a second generation model, so you're clearly wrong.

Evidence of a 2nd generation does not prove that it is profitable (it may be, but not based simply on a 2nd gen).  BMW could be using the X6 as a loss leader (for "brand image"), or expect sales to pick up in subsequent generations to result in profitability.

We have no idea how much profit BMW derives from each X6 sold (probably LOTS, as most of its R&D cost should be amortized with the X5, but we don't know the exact amount), and we have no idea what the development/regulatory costs are.  Therefore we can speculate about the relative profitability of the vehicle in North America, but none of us actually knows.

[OliverD]

The X6 hasn't been worth the funds required to have it federalized in NA, let alone the R&D costs. I doubt this will fare any better.

Yet they are bringing us a second generation model, so you're clearly wrong.

Evidence of a 2nd generation does not prove that it is profitable (it may be, but not based simply on a 2nd gen).  BMW could be using the X6 as a loss leader (for "brand image"), or expect sales to pick up in subsequent generations to result in profitability.

We have no idea how much profit BMW derives from each X6 sold (probably LOTS, as most of its R&D cost should be amortized with the X5, but we don't know the exact amount), and we have no idea what the development/regulatory costs are.  Therefore we can speculate about the relative profitability of the vehicle in North America, but none of us actually knows.

Obviously. But considering that the X6 starts at about $5k more than the X5 and shares a platform, most mechanicals, and some interior bits with the X5, I think it's safe to say that BMW is making money, even if they do sell in much smaller numbers.

And while the X5 outsells the X6 in NA by a large ratio, globally they are much closer: Almost 110k X5s last year vs almost 40k X6s.

[jyarkony]

I'm sure it's a decent piece of machinery when considered in a vacuum, but hard to make a strong case for it when you consider the alternatives.

this is where I think you have it backwards. I don't think it is necessarily considered in a list of pros and cons of one vehicle vs another. Somebody might just show up at the BMW dealership, see it all shiny and sparkling and be like, "That's the one I want (daddy)." or see it at the mall or downtown or somewhere.

I absolutely agree there are better, more practical solution that can do everything this does and more, and better, but not every car has to be designed by that measure - is a coupe better than a sedan if judged by a list of requirements or capabilities that it needs of fulfill? I guess they should just stop building coupes...

[jyarkony]

The X6 hasn't been worth the funds required to have it federalized in NA, let alone the R&D costs. I doubt this will fare any better.

Yet they are bringing us a second generation model, so you're clearly wrong.

Evidence of a 2nd generation does not prove that it is profitable (it may be, but not based simply on a 2nd gen).  BMW could be using the X6 as a loss leader (for "brand image"), or expect sales to pick up in subsequent generations to result in profitability.

We have no idea how much profit BMW derives from each X6 sold (probably LOTS, as most of its R&D cost should be amortized with the X5, but we don't know the exact amount), and we have no idea what the development/regulatory costs are.  Therefore we can speculate about the relative profitability of the vehicle in North America, but none of us actually knows.

Obviously. But considering that the X6 starts at about $5k more than the X5 and shares a platform, most mechanicals, and some interior bits with the X5, I think it's safe to say that BMW is making money, even if they do sell in much small numbers.

And while the X5 outsells the X6 by a large ratio, globally they are much closer: Almost 110k X5s last year vs almost 40k X6s.

I bet half of those were in Israel... they are pretty popular there - my theory - former tank division guys love the bunker on wheels feel of it...

[jyarkony]

Sometimes it's not about what people ask for (people ask for the dumbest things - think The Homer),

Touche, JY! 
"And the sticker price for this car is .... 82,000 dollars?"

Actually, that's pretty close to the sticker price of the X6 as well!

Now where's those 2015 Outback specs?

workin' on it...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The X6 hasn't been worth the funds required to have it federalized in NA, let alone the R&D costs. I doubt this will fare any better.

Yet they are bringing us a second generation model, so you're clearly wrong.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so. VW loses millions on each Bugatti sold, other examples are listed below. Some cars end up being vanity exercises for their proponents within the company and hang on long after they should have been culled.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/09/daily-chart-18?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/tr/zoomsputteraagghhh

[jyarkony]

The X6 hasn't been worth the funds required to have it federalized in NA, let alone the R&D costs. I doubt this will fare any better.

Yet they are bringing us a second generation model, so you're clearly wrong.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so. VW loses millions on each Bugatti sold, other examples are listed below. Some cars end up being vanity exercises for their proponents within the company and hang on long after they should have been culled.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/09/daily-chart-18?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/tr/zoomsputteraagghhh

hmmm, two Merc cars and three VAG cars, but no BMWs on the list...

[evil_twin]

I'm sure it's a decent piece of machinery when considered in a vacuum, but hard to make a strong case for it when you consider the alternatives.

this is where I think you have it backwards. I don't think it is necessarily considered in a list of pros and cons of one vehicle vs another. Somebody might just show up at the BMW dealership, see it all shiny and sparkling and be like, "That's the one I want (daddy)." or see it at the mall or downtown or somewhere.

I absolutely agree there are better, more practical solution that can do everything this does and more, and better, but not every car has to be designed by that measure - is a coupe better than a sedan if judged by a list of requirements or capabilities that it needs of fulfill? I guess they should just stop building coupes...

You're right.  My argument hinges on the, admittedly, subjective view that the X6 does not look better than the X5.   

Obviously any car purchase can be justified for the simple reason of "that's the one I want".  And often that "want" is driven by style.  I just have a really hard time understanding what these people see in the X6 over the X5.  Clearly they prefer the styling, but man....it's hard to see from my perspective.  Otherwise the X5 does everything the same or better.  (which I realize no one is arguing...)