Topic: The Vaping Thread

[Snowman]

Looks like Vaping will be punted outdoors and I tend to agree with the WHO here.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/who-calls-for-tougher-rules-for-e-cigarettes/article20204491/#dashboard/follows/

[rrocket]

Looks like Vaping will be punted outdoors and I tend to agree with the WHO here.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/who-calls-for-tougher-rules-for-e-cigarettes/article20204491/#dashboard/follows/

Based on what do you agree with them? Because water vapor is dangerous?     What studies have you read?

Study of 2nd hand "smoke" shows no health concerns and poses no threat to by-standers: "there was no evidence that vaping produced inhalable exposure to contaminants of aerosol that would warrant health concerns." In conclusion, chemical studies have found that exposure to toxic chemicals from ECs is far lower compared with tobacco cigarettes. Besides comparing the levels of specific chemicals released from tobacco and ECs, it should be taken into consideration that the vast majority of the >4000 chemicals present in tobacco smoke are completely absent from ECs. O   http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18
 
Contaminants in vapor "smoke":  "There was no evidence of potential for exposures of e-cigarette users to contaminants that are associated with
risk to health at a level that would warrant attention if it were an involuntary workplace exposures.  Exposures of bystanders are likely to be orders of magnitude less, and thus pose no apparent concern."  http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2458-14-18.pdf

Study by Roswell Park Cancer Institute on "smoke" shows no exposure to combustion toxicants:  http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/10/ntr.ntt203.short?rss=1

Health New Zealand study shows no dangerous effects of "smoke": "Second hand mist from an e-cigarette is not smoke at all, and does not contain any substance known to cause death, short or long term, in the quantities found"  http://www.healthnz.co.nz/ECigsExhaledSmoke.htm

"Smoke" in high concentrations tested in lab subjects "completely harmless": http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/91/1/52.abstract

Pretty exhaustive research on how much safer e-cigs are than cigarettes, with no funding from e-cig manufacturers or others:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110871/

Toxic Emission Score for e-cigs vs. cigarettes:


53 professors who specialize in public health as it pertains to smoking/nicotine urged the WHO NOT to treat e-cigs as cigarettes.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/29/who-suppress-control-e-cigarettes-uk-health-tobacco
Paper is here: http://nicotinepolicy.net/documents/letters/MargaretChan.pdf

Royal College of Physicians: "the direct hazard to users – irrespective of smoking status – and others, from e-cigarettes is low".  https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/commentary/what-you-need-know-about-electronic-cigarettes

E-cigs have no effect on the hardening of arteries, per the Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center in Greece.  Another study backs that up:  No effect on the heart: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2261/14/78/abstract#

Vapor e-liquid have no adverse toxicity effects on cardiac cells: http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/10/10/5146/pdf

No effect on oxygenation of the heart/myocardial function: http://spo.escardio.org/eslides/view.aspx?eevtid=54&fp=1375

But I do understand...if you don't want to inhale vapor or smoke of any kind...no problem.  But saying that vaping is a dangerous as smoking is crazy.  And wanting to regulate is like a cigarette is just as crazy.

2nd hand e-cig vapor is safer than breathing in air on a busy city street...

[Northernridge]

I'm surprised and disappointed by the prompt social-outcasting and rush to regulate vaping.

[rrocket]

I'm surprised and disappointed by the prompt social-outlasting and rush to regulate vaping.

If I put my tinfoil hat on, I'd say it's big tobacco behind it.  If you make vaping "just as bad" as tobacco, I suppose people will keep smoking tobacco?   

[Dexer]

I'm surprised and disappointed by the prompt social-outlasting and rush to regulate vaping.

Why are you surprised?

This is Canada.

Regulating imaginary threats to health and safety is full time job for do-gooders and government agencies.

Most of the real threats to health and safety were properly regulated more than 50 years ago. Since then, it has become necessary to regulate fake health threats. Nothing about this surprises me. Look at those damned E-cigarettes...is that glass! Do you how dangerous it is to put glass in your mouth? Are those chrome-plated? Chromium is a known carcinogen!

Heck...it would be safer to stick a loaded .45 in your mouth!

[Snowman]

I'm not saying vaping is good or bad, there is not enough long term testing to confirm or deny. But it should not be permitted in public, an age limitation law be passed, and advertising should be non existent.

[rrocket]

I'm not saying vaping is good or bad, there is not enough long term testing to confirm or deny. But it should not be permitted in public, an age limitation law be passed, and advertising should be non existent.

Not permitted in public?  WTF are you talking about?  I can smoke cigars in public....but I shouldn't be allowed to vape in public??

I'm going to be vaping up a storm driving you guys to NAIAS this year...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

We have a few people who use these. I have no problem one way or the other with them, but I didn't know what corporate policy was, so I checked with HR. No defined policy as such yet, but it looks like it may be treated the same as perfume i.e. no excessive scents in the office.

[Snowman]

I'm not saying vaping is good or bad, there is not enough long term testing to confirm or deny. But it should not be permitted in public, an age limitation law be passed, and advertising should be non existent.

Not permitted in public?  WTF are you talking about?  I can smoke cigars in public....but I shouldn't be allowed to vape in public??

I'm going to be vaping up a storm driving you guys to NAIAS this year...

Sorry, I meant in a public building.

[rrocket]

I'm not saying vaping is good or bad, there is not enough long term testing to confirm or deny. But it should not be permitted in public, an age limitation law be passed, and advertising should be non existent.

Not permitted in public?  WTF are you talking about?  I can smoke cigars in public....but I shouldn't be allowed to vape in public??

I'm going to be vaping up a storm driving you guys to NAIAS this year...

Sorry, I meant in a public building.

Oh, I see.

[rrocket]

lol @ your Ontario Liberals classifying e-cigs the same as normal cigarettes 

Wait for the taxing to begin soon too 

Thinking of the children, obviously....

[rrocket]

lol @ your Ontario Liberals classifying e-cigs the same as normal cigarettes 

Wait for the taxing to begin soon too 

Thinking of the children, obviously....

As a vaper, how do you feel about this?

I think it's stupid, really.  I've posted the links showing that it's safer than e-cigs.

That being said, if someone doesn't want to be around vaping (or my cigars), I get it.  No biggie.  Doesn't bother me.

But I really think there was a rush to ban these.  I have to wonder if "real" tobacco companies had a hand in pushing this agenda?

[rrocket]

I'm curious about the rush, too. Don't care because I don't vape, but I find it interesting nevertheless.

Especially after:

1) Wynne said she wouldn't rush a decision

2) Several Doctors argued the benefits of vaping vs. cigarettes recently to the Ontario gov't.

[Snowman]

Why the need for vaping? I smoked for years then understood it was bad for my health so I stopped, find something else to do.

[rrocket]

Why the need for vaping? I smoked for years then understood it was bad for my health so I stopped, find something else to do.

Why the need for a high powered sports car?   

[tpl]

Just saw the news item about this on the TV.   Immediately followed by an ad associating illegal cigarettes with organised crime.   Nicely timed I thought.

A couple of my ex colleagues who have not managed to quit smoking in the 30+ years I have known them use e-cigarettes...supposedly as an aid to quitting ... but they still smoke regular cigarettes whenever they can.

I have no opinion about vaping either way  ( Hard to believe I know!)


Like Snowman, I smoked for years and then quit...when it became too expensive and I could no longer smoke at work

[rrocket]

I'm not a cigarette smoker, so I don't vape to quit anything.  All my vapes are nicotine free too.  So it's not like I vape to feed a craving of nicotine.  I don't even do it everyday.

I just like it.  In the same way I find cigars satisfying, I also find vaping satisfying.  Some of the flavors are incredible and I enjoy making the enormous clouds of vapor. 

Nothing beyond that, really.

[Snowman]

Why the need for vaping? I smoked for years then understood it was bad for my health so I stopped, find something else to do.

Why the need want for a high powered sports car?   

Corrected that for you 

[Ex-airbalancer]

Want some excitement in your pant , use e-cigarette 
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Man-burns-hand-leg-ecigarette-explodes-pants-NYC-grand-central-station--402686205.html

[rrocket]

As I mentioned before, I vape.  Not to quit smoking, but because I enjoy the flavors and massive clouds of "smoke".  It guess I fall in the middle of flavor chasers and cloud chasers.  I prefer complex flavors (due to cigars and their complex flavors).  But those are very hard to come by; I've found a few crafted by former pastry chefs or chefs in general.

However, today I got in a shipment from a company from France.  The "mixologist" is a former French master blender for spirits and wines.  And the product is finished by another master craftsman in the capital of the world's foremost parfum and aroma blending city Grasse.  Further, the products are tested by an independent lab using a gas chromatograph for impurities (particularly diacetyl and acetoin, which might be lung irritants in acute amounts.  Oddly, the potential danger of these only came to light when they were found in commercially produced buttered popcorn factory.  FWIW, these chemicals are found in pretty much everything with an aritificial flavor or aroma enhancing product...foods, parfums, etc).  In the testing, if either of these comes in above the "undetectable range", the product will not be sold.  These results are then certified and then signed off by an MD.  In addition, all ingredients are either USP grade or organic.

All I can say is WOW!  I still find it incredible how these flavors can be "stacked" and that a good palate can taste the things they are advertising....and different flavors on the inhale vs. exhale.  And in this case, the first one I tried is AMAZING.  I can taste everything.  I still don't know how they do it...

The first one of up for review is "Night Flight".  From the manufacturer "A robust black coffee with a swirl of cream & whiskey paired with almond biscuits.".  Up until now, every coffee flavor I've tried has been..well..terrible.  Tasting very much like fake coffee.  But in this one?  It's like a really clean cup of dark coffee on the inhale.  And I'm stupefied that you can actually taste the mild acidic bite that a full up black coffee offers in real life.  On the exhale...yep...I get the cream (very mild) and the whisky.  The whisky flavor is that mild whisky taste you get when you add whiskey to coffee...that subtle warm taste.  Sadly, I don't taste the almond biscuits...but I'm confident that this is because I'm currently using my el-cheapo pocket vaporizer I carry while at work (Aspire Nautilus Pock-ex).  Once I put it in a better tank  (Smok TFV4 or TFV8) and can control the heat and wattage,  I'm quite certain the flavor will REALLY wake up.  I'm counting the hours until I get home to try this!

All in all...I'm SOOO happy to have found these juices even if they are a bit pricey.

More reports to come as I get into more of these incredible mixes.