Author Topic: The money thread  (Read 509001 times)

Offline rrocket

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #820 on: October 21, 2014, 10:58:38 pm »



EASYHOME EH:TO

$6.00 to $24.00 in just under 3 years.  That's a MONEY BALL!   Based on some silly business model which leases furniture and appliances to the disenfranchised (30% of the population) @ 48% annually.

For every one of those "money balls" I see in financial papers, I see 25 that tank....
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #821 on: October 21, 2014, 11:12:42 pm »
For every one of those "money balls" I see in financial papers, I see 25 that tank....

The decision to invest precedes the Money Ball.  The Money Ball is only known to the individual investor at X point in time.  You are obviously not suited to self investing in the stock market.  Keep buying cars.  :)   

Offline rrocket

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #822 on: October 21, 2014, 11:23:01 pm »
For every one of those "money balls" I see in financial papers, I see 25 that tank....

The decision to invest precedes the Money Ball.  The Money Ball is only known to the individual investor at X point in time.  You are obviously not suited to self investing in the stock market.  Keep buying cars.  :)   

I'm doing just fine, thanks. My point being you/ me/we (people in general) rarely hit these homeruns.  If you/me/we did with any consistency, you/me/we would A) be retired long ago B) wouldn't be wasting time on this forum.   ;D
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 11:26:05 pm by rrocket »

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #823 on: October 21, 2014, 11:39:01 pm »
I've hit 1 triple (2012 to date) and 2 doubles plus (2013 to date).  My problem is I have a hard time letting go and taking profits.  Common issue apparently.

A) be retired long ago B) wouldn't be wasting time on this forum


I am retired and I have nothing else to do at night and the games been a yawn right from the first pitch.

Offline rrocket

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #824 on: October 21, 2014, 11:47:47 pm »
I've hit 1 triple (2012 to date) and 2 doubles plus (2013 to date).  My problem is I have a hard time letting go and taking profits.  Common issue apparently.



That's part of the trick, isn't it?

My best (long term) homerun is GNTX. 

Offline dougjp

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #825 on: October 22, 2014, 07:42:10 am »
How its done.  :-\


Offline Patrick_D1

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #826 on: October 22, 2014, 07:57:06 am »
How its done.  :-\



That's depressing. Also fairly accurate for many.
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Offline mmret

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #827 on: October 22, 2014, 08:57:58 am »
i don't know about you guys but i prefer to get my stock tips from elevator rides
You can't just have your characters announce how they feel.
That makes me feel angry!

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Offline wing

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #828 on: October 22, 2014, 09:03:05 am »
ACQ was my moneyball.  Bought at $8 sold at $75 in 2 years.  Only regret was not putting more in!

Offline blotter

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #829 on: October 22, 2014, 10:44:07 am »
couple points on all the comments here and I'm really no expert.

Quote
Using a FA will get you what everyone else gets ... D*CK ALL

This isn't true.  It's all about expectations.   



First off learning to be a self investor does take time. 
Time cost money.   

"getting the money ball"
well it takes money to get money.   

Snowy is right when he says you need $1M to be in "the club"   Maybe not that much but certainly you need some cash to make cash.   


Quote
Watch BNN and BNN Market Call and BNN Market Call Tonight.  Listen to the callers. 

watch....  but you can't take what the news and media is saying hook, line and sinker.
By the time the Globe & Mail is writting about it, those with the money already made money on it. 
You're usually too late to the party.   Plus so much that comes out in the news (recommendations etc) is bias.
There's been proof that people have been paid off to push this or that stock so others can profit.


You can make all this is complex as you want but there's no true magic formula. 
There's plenty of books and people out there are have a good read on guidance but nothing comes with any guarantees. 


Quote
For every one of those "money balls" I see in financial papers, I see 25 that tank....
this is totally true.   
that's why the money ball is all about having the cash to hit it.
you can spread it over 20 stocks have get 2 good hits --- those two hits can more than make up the lost on the 18 others.



I've got 30 years until I retire and I'm very late to the DIY party.   I don't have much going in now so I'm very careful.   My plan was to track and acquire blue chip stock (Telus) which provide a good dividend and in 30 years time the value to have increased.    I sprinkle very little in risky players but have a few like Tweed that I'm sitting on hoping they may be some minor jackpot in 5 to 10 years.   
I keep my expectations tempered.   I read and read and read and read, but all that takes time.  I do have a couple risk players I read about jumps too early without taking the time to do my due diligence and now know I've bought at a terrible time.  (from what I said above, a recommendation that came when the stock was really at a peak, waiting, I would have paid much less).

The only reason I've gotten into this is that I feel I've got decent knowledge to give it a shot, I have time and this is a small portion of my retirement portfolio I can control myself. 


I would argue that a Financial Advisor is useful for someone who doesn't have the time, doesn't want to make time and doesn't care to know how things work.   The trick is finding the right advisor who will get to know you, your plans, your goals and make a plan that fits.   There IS actually value in that. 
 


Offline ArticSteve

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #830 on: October 22, 2014, 02:44:11 pm »
I've done quite well for myself over the past decade and have grown my net worth meaningfully investing in the markets keeping it simple and generally not selling as follows:

The market has done well in the past decade.   BCE @ 100%,  TD @ 500%.  The reason ppl generally don't sell these stocks is the tax liability. 

  Are you placing all of your money in one stock and hope it turns out?

Presently, have everything into mid cap dividend paying Canadian oilys, not for the divvy in it's self though.

Do you track your portfolio performance?   

Generally wake up at 11 am and first thing I do before my feet hit the floor is reach for my Ipod.  Then around 6 pm I'll take another look.  Scan the related Bullboards for news.  Watch replays of BNN late at night.  Serial tracker.  :)

If you can beat the index, consistently, without incurring a significant amount of risk, I would suggest seriously leveraging and amplifying your returns

The stock market is a game of musical chairs, obviously.  For every winner on X day there is a loser.  I would never advise anyone to leverage/borrow/etc to play the markets.    I have all our Canadian cash in the those 5.  Rest I converted to USD and it earns 2% (minus the tax liability).   :P

Note that in 2013 the S&P 500 TR index was up 41.5% in CAD$. I'm happy to simply capture market performance and keep fees low.


One only "captures market performance" when they convert their holdings into "cash".  Pointless to say I made X dollars in one year when the asset has yet to be purchased from another.  It's like when I listen to ppl saying their cottage is worth $700K.   Well it's not 700K until it's in your pocket and after giving 25% to Mr. Harper is it?   

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #831 on: October 22, 2014, 04:30:20 pm »

Do you track your portfolio performance?   

Generally wake up at 11 am and first thing I do before my feet hit the floor is reach for my Ipod.  Then around 6 pm I'll take another look.  Scan the related Bullboards for news.  Watch replays of BNN late at night.  Serial tracker.  :)

That wasn't the question.

What is your return over 5/10/15 years, and how much better did you do than, say, the TSX Composite Index. Hard numbers, please. :)

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #832 on: October 22, 2014, 08:10:22 pm »
I didn't enter the TSX until October of 2012 and then didn't dump the rest I had until spring of 2013.  So, Surge Energy, Raging River, Whitecap and Easyhome .... about 220%.  And that right up to closing today, not a month ago.  :P  :rofl2: 

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #833 on: October 22, 2014, 08:38:29 pm »
I think the question was more to the point of establishing a baseline to measure your success. Everyone remembers their big winners and good years, but kind of glosses over the failures - it's just human nature.

And I say this as someone who shamefully admits I don't track the performance of my portfolio, either. It's really a fundamental aspect of investing, but it's tedious so I haven't bothered.  :-[

It should be simple, but between my wife and I we have six investment accounts and five bank accounts. Money goes in and out and all around, and it takes an effort to keep track of it. Sure, our investment account may be up in value 10% this month, but wait... didn't I put some cash in there last month?

And dividends complicate it, too. Are they reinvested, or do you pull the cash out for other stuff? And you can't just rely on that % number on the bottom of the bank statement, either. I've transferred stocks from one account to another, and their cost base in the new account shows up as zero! Woo-hoo - infinite gains!

I've been meaning to go back through all my records for five years and try to figure out what my actual rate of return is. My overall balances are up nicely, of course, but as I said, cash has also been going in and out. Unless you have an actual number to measure against, it's hard to say whether you're doing well or not.

And then there's the risk aspect of it. It's one thing to make great returns, but how much risk were you really exposing yourself to? Lots of guys made a killing in sub-prime lending... until suddenly they didn't.

Offline Hannibalsmith

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #834 on: October 22, 2014, 09:25:52 pm »
^^ What HeliDriver said. Although it was a bit of a rhetorical question. I don't really need ArcticSteve to post his returns, but simply pointing out the concept of benchmarking one self in a risk adjusted manner.
I love it when a plan comes together.

Offline rrocket

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #835 on: October 22, 2014, 09:34:08 pm »
Here's a sappy story about one of my investments.  In high school economics class, we had to research and pick a stock and "spend" $5,000 play money on it.  It had to be something you had an interest in or a product you frequently used, etc.  So I picked something automotive.  I researched about small, niche automotive companies.  I ended up picking Gentex.  They made self-dimming rearview mirrors...which were starting to become popular in cars.  They had their foot in the door at a few OEMs.  I researched the company. Since they were headquartered in Michigan, I even visited them.  Fast forward to 1990 when I was out of school and had money to invest.  They were the 1st company I ever invested in "for real".  I bought in at 50 cents.  They've been as high as $35.  They closed today at $~31.

So there's my sappy investment story for today.  :)

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #836 on: October 22, 2014, 09:46:41 pm »
First off learning to be a self investor does take time. 
Time cost money.   


That is the classic FA/Industry sales line.

Snowy is right when he says you need $1M to be in "the club"   Maybe not that much but certainly you need some cash to make cash.   


100 shares appreciates just the same as 10,000 shares.

Quote
Watch BNN and BNN Market Call and BNN Market Call Tonight.  Listen to the callers. 

watch....  but you can't take what the news and media is saying hook, line and sinker.
By the time the Globe & Mail is writting about it, those with the money already made money on it. 
You're usually too late to the party.[/b] 

This is absolutely false.  Easyhome was mentioned in the Globe Investor @ $8.00. which was a relatively "double" from where it started.   It didn't move after that in any significant way, rather it just had a gradual rise to $24. 

Plus so much that comes out in the news (recommendations etc) is bias.
There's been proof that people have been paid off to push this or that stock so others can profit.


It's absolutely assumed that those Fund Managers on BNN and Market Analysts are promoting the stock.  One needs to decide for themselves if there is any merit in the pitch. 

You can make all this is complex as you want but there's no true magic formula. 
There's plenty of books and people out there are have a good read on guidance but nothing comes with any guarantees. 


It is not complex whatsoever.  When you watch Pay Day Loans proliferate across the country, ppl take unnecessary vehicle debt like they do, it's not very difficult to draw a line to ppl paying 48% interest on cheap household furniture, etc.  Hence .... EASYHOME ....  The name says it all. 


Quote
For every one of those "money balls" I see in financial papers, I see 25 that tank....
this is totally true.   
that's why the money ball is all about having the cash to hit it.
you can spread it over 20 stocks have get 2 good hits --- those two hits can more than make up the lost on the 18 others.[/b]

FAs always emphasis diversification.  Spreading the investment over different sectors.   Sounds safe.  Win here , lose there.  It makes no sense.

I would argue that a Financial Advisor is useful for someone who doesn't have the time, doesn't want to make time and doesn't care to know how things work.   The trick is finding the right advisor who will get to know you, your plans, your goals and make a plan that fits.   There IS actually value in that.

Anyone that requires a retail FA needs to stay out of the stock market. No offense intended.  :)

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #837 on: October 22, 2014, 10:21:14 pm »
And then there's the risk aspect of it. It's one thing to make great returns, but how much risk were you really exposing yourself to? Lots of guys made a killing in sub-prime lending... until suddenly they didn't.

The financial crisis illustrated that there is no such thing as low risk in stocks or anything for that matter.   Everything is a risk.  I invest in Canadian oil because the world as we know it runs on oil.  Even if a particular company fails in bring the oil out of the ground at a profit, there is always the underlying asset to be sold to another oily. 

Legacy Oil and Gas is an interesting study of risk.  Price to Book is .48  :o   

Offline blotter

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #838 on: October 28, 2014, 12:27:48 pm »

Offline Hannibalsmith

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Re: The money thread
« Reply #839 on: October 31, 2014, 08:15:53 am »
I'm by no means a proponent of market timing, and some will argue things seem a bit frothy, but man, the US is putting up some solid numbers, which is being reflected:

This morning
Dow Futures           17,304.00   +190.00   +1.11%
Nasdaq Futures   4,149.50           +60.00   +1.47%
S&P Futures           2,010.75           +22.25   +1.12%