Topic: Test Drive: 2013 Honda Accord Sedan Touring

[greengs]

The issue with traditional automatics is the efficiency losses with the torque converter.  CVTs (pulley systems) are just more efficient and they can manage the power from a low displacement motor more efficiently than a traditional torque converter/gear tranny.  It's a done deal.  Look forward to it. 

But a DSG is even more efficient and 7 and 8 speed ones exists already in production.  AND a DSG with good software an a lever or paddles can nearly satisfy the   diehard MT drivers.   

I've yet to try VW DSG, it seems to have the best of both worlds, performance and comfort. I just hope it's nothing like the SMG from BMW. Drove one in a M3, hard hitting tranny.

DSG is good for enthusiasts.  I find them all a bit rough in slow moving traffic though, especially the Ford one. 

[tpl]

The issue with traditional automatics is the efficiency losses with the torque converter.  CVTs (pulley systems) are just more efficient and they can manage the power from a low displacement motor more efficiently than a traditional torque converter/gear tranny.  It's a done deal.  Look forward to it. 

But a DSG is even more efficient and 7 and 8 speed ones exists already in production.  AND a DSG with good software an a lever or paddles can nearly satisfy the   diehard MT drivers.   

I've yet to try VW DSG, it seems to have the best of both worlds, performance and comfort. I just hope it's nothing like the SMG from BMW. Drove one in a M3, hard hitting tranny.

DSG is good for enthusiasts.  I find them all a bit rough in slow moving traffic though, especially the Ford one.

I have heard that from the VW dealer service manager.  Mine is fine and smooth and I would suggest that it is probably time for a software change to smooth out the low speed/small throttle opening gear changes to keep people happy.  At least one of the "chip" makers does a software upgrade for the 6 speed DSG but I don't know if it is just for performance purposes.
I would guess that the Ford one could do with the same treatment.  Perhaps they need a change of clutch plate material as well.
I would be interested to hear how BMW's DCT and Porsche's one work .

The old SMG was quite a different device and was really rough.

[jpd]

VW DSG + VW TDI = a great experience

[dirtyjeffer]

But a DSG is even more efficient and 7 and 8 speed ones exists already in production.  AND a DSG with good software an a lever or paddles can nearly satisfy the   diehard MT drivers.   

yes, however DSGs are more expensive and complex to make and develop.

[dirtyjeffer]

Mine is fine and smooth and I would suggest that it is probably time for a software change to smooth out the low speed/small throttle opening gear changes to keep people happy.  At least one of the "chip" makers does a software upgrade for the 6 speed DSG but I don't know if it is just for performance purposes.
I would guess that the Ford one could do with the same treatment.  Perhaps they need a change of clutch plate material as well.

that has more to do with the transmissions and how they are made (depending on which Ford unit you are talking about)...the DSG used in the Fiesta is an electrically actuated unit, whereas the other ones use hydraulic actuation (like the VW model)...while the VW version is considered "the benchmark", they have also been making them for almost 10 years and likely have a million+ units in the field.

[Fobroader]

But a DSG is even more efficient and 7 and 8 speed ones exists already in production.  AND a DSG with good software an a lever or paddles can nearly satisfy the   diehard MT drivers.   

yes, however DSGs are more expensive and complex to make and develop.

Plus the vast amount of sheeple have never shifted more than from P to R and D,  a DSG would be a waste of money. It amazes me the amount of idiots that burn their brakes out in the mountains because theyre too ignorant to shift down.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

[dirtyjeffer]

Plus the vast amount of sheeple have never shifted more than from P to R and D,  a DSG would be a waste of money. It amazes me the amount of idiots that burn their brakes out in the mountains because they're too ignorant to shift down.

you don't need to "paddle shift" a DSG to get anything out of it...its direct drive benefits still improve driving dynamics and fuel economy (efficiency)...letting off the throttle in a DSG should be akin to doing the same thing in a manual transmission and the vehicle should slow down and downshift on its own...my Rio5 does that, and it doesn't even have a DSG (it is just the way the transmission is programmed, provided it isn't in "ActiveECO" mode).

[Ace]

VW DSG + VW TDI = a great experience

VW TDI + VW MT 6speed = a greater experience 

[redman]

But a DSG is even more efficient and 7 and 8 speed ones exists already in production.  AND a DSG with good software an a lever or paddles can nearly satisfy the   diehard MT drivers.   

yes, however DSGs are more expensive and complex to make and develop.

Plus the vast amount of sheeple have never shifted more than from P to R and D,  a DSG would be a waste of money. It amazes me the amount of idiots that burn their brakes out in the mountains because theyre too ignorant to shift down.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Interesting point regarding brakes vs clutching. I once asked a well experienced vehicle tech friend of mine what is preferred and his response made sense to me.
"What would you rather have replaced, brakes or clutch."
 If you're not powering out of turn (rally style) then brakes are the way to slow down.
On another note, when you brake you effect 4 brake points, 4 wheels. When you brake with a clutch you are usually only effecting either the front or rear powered set of wheels.
Initiating brakes also takes ABS into account if equipped. Clutch braking mitigates anti lock systems. 

[johngenx]

I will downshift to maintain control of which gear I'm in, but the brakes are the gear used for slowing down.  On modern cars, I've never had any troubles with braking even on the steepest, longest mountain pass descents.  For precision driving, the brakes can be modulated much easier than engine braking.  Also, engine braking is not affecting all four wheels.  No ABS either if your car is so equipped.

[canuckystan]

Unless you are a fully loaded 18 wheeler, use your brakes to slow down, not the engine and trans.

[Fobroader]

Haul a trailer through the mountains and then come talk to me about engine braking. With cruise control and going from drive to 3 then 2, I can control my vehicle much easier.

[Northernridge]

Unless you are a fully loaded 18 wheeler, use your brakes to slow down, not the engine and trans.

Hopelessly incorrect & terrible advice. Fail.

See Fobroader's comment above.

[Fobroader]

Unless you are a fully loaded 18 wheeler, use your brakes to slow down, not the engine and trans.

Hopelessly incorrect & terrible advice. Fail.

See Fobroader's comment above.

From Vancouver, probably the biggest problem are his hemp sandals slipping off his pedals 

[HeliDriver]

Unless you are a fully loaded 18 wheeler, use your brakes to slow down, not the engine and trans.

Hopelessly incorrect & terrible advice. Fail.

See Fobroader's comment above.

+1 (sort of)

Yes, downshifting and dumping the clutch is a bad way to slow the car down: that's what brakes are for.

But, there is nothing wrong with executing a proper rev-matched downshift to put your car in a lower gear, then using that lower gear and engine braking to maintain your speed on a downhill.

Even with an automatic, engine braking is your friend. Just make sure to downshift into the appropriate gear at the top of the hill, not half way down when you're already going too fast and want to slow down. Again, it's all about using the gears to help maintain a chosen speed, not scrub it off once it's too late.

[Patrick_D1]

Unless you are a fully loaded 18 wheeler, use your brakes to slow down, not the engine and trans.

Hopelessly incorrect & terrible advice. Fail.

See Fobroader's comment above.

+1 (sort of)

Yes, downshifting and dumping the clutch is a bad way to slow the car down: that's what brakes are for.

But, there is nothing wrong with executing a proper rev-matched downshift to put your car in a lower gear, then using that lower gear and engine braking to maintain your speed on a downhill.

Even with an automatic, engine braking is your friend. Just make sure to downshift into the appropriate gear at the top of the hill, not half way down when you're already going too fast and want to slow down. Again, it's all about using the gears to help maintain a chosen speed, not scrub it off once it's too late.

This x1,000,000.

[Vanstar]

Back to the car, I test drove one last week for the heck of it. It was a 4 cylinder with CVT and I was very impressed with the car. The motor makes more than enough power for me anyway  and I think the V-6 would be a waste of money. The CVT worked seamlessly and responsively. The car rode firmly, turned in well and felt very solid. The steering feel was quite good. With the front seat adjusted for me, the rear was comfortable and I am 6'2". Good visibility in the car, too.

We now have a great selection in this class and most are very good cars in my opinion.

[nlm]

I didn't really see where/how "the magic is back" with the 2013 Accord, especially with the CVT. Did I miss something in the article?

[rrocket]

I didn't really see where/how "the magic is back" with the 2013 Accord, especially with the CVT. Did I miss something in the article?

Yes.

[mixmanmash]

But a DSG is even more efficient and 7 and 8 speed ones exists already in production.  AND a DSG with good software an a lever or paddles can nearly satisfy the   diehard MT drivers.   

yes, however DSGs are more expensive and complex to make and develop.

Plus the vast amount of sheeple have never shifted more than from P to R and D,  a DSG would be a waste of money. It amazes me the amount of idiots that burn their brakes out in the mountains because theyre too ignorant to shift down.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Interesting point regarding brakes vs clutching. I once asked a well experienced vehicle tech friend of mine what is preferred and his response made sense to me.
"What would you rather have replaced, brakes or clutch."
 If you're not powering out of turn (rally style) then brakes are the way to slow down.
On another note, when you brake you effect 4 brake points, 4 wheels. When you brake with a clutch you are usually only effecting either the front or rear powered set of wheels.
Initiating brakes also takes ABS into account if equipped. Clutch braking mitigates anti lock systems.

So, I regularly downshift (properly, by rev matching heal-toeing) as I am slowing down.  I have 313,000 kms on the original clutch.  I am almost on my fourth set of brake pads.  If you do it right and know how to drive a manual car right, it will last.  Problem is, most people don't and this kind of misinformation gets pushed about.  Of course, I am not talking about high horsepower sports cars here that will probably have some clutch life suffer because of the torque output.