Topic: The Quick and the Dad: Honda Civic Si HFP

[mixmanmash]

It's amazing to me that a poster here would try to imply that rear wheel drive is as good as fwd in the snow.   I believe that small fwd cars caught on as quickly as they did in this country because of the immense advantage fwd has in low traction situations.

The first morning of snow in my Rabbit I almost got into two accidents because I accelerated very quickly and then had to brake.  Well, just like AWD novices, you discover that a huge improvement in acceleration does not equal any improvement in braking or cornering.    Recalibration is necessary.

FWD vs RWD is no contest in snow and ice.

Cheers,
John M.

1 word that makes FWD suck - understeer.  At least with RWD, you can control it with application of throttle.

RWD is not what it use to be 20-30 years ago.

[JohnM]

On dry roads, I agree but in less than perfect conditions, I'll take fwd anytime.  About the only vehicles in mass production still using rwd are pickups.   Every year I see a few wild tail out situations with them but I've yet to be hit.  One woman I know keeps about 500 pounds of patio stones in the back to keep the tail down.

What mainstream vehicles now are rwd?  I don't think too many.  If I had it, I'd certainly get a limited slip dif to go with it - not a bad idea for fwd either.

The last rwd vehicle I had was an Alfa Berlina but it had nearly a 50/50 weight distribution.  The bottom line is you have to have weight over the drive wheels.  Technology can cover, mask and optimize but it can't make up for lightly loaded drive wheels.

Cheers,
John M.

[PJ]

It's amazing to me that a poster here would try to imply that rear wheel drive is as good as fwd in the snow.   I believe that small fwd cars caught on as quickly as they did in this country because of the immense advantage fwd has in low traction situations.

The first morning of snow in my Rabbit I almost got into two accidents because I accelerated very quickly and then had to brake.  Well, just like AWD novices, you discover that a huge improvement in acceleration does not equal any improvement in braking or cornering.    Recalibration is necessary.

FWD vs RWD is no contest in snow and ice.

Cheers,
John M.

1 word that makes FWD suck - understeer.  At least with RWD, you can control it with application of throttle.

RWD is not what it use to be 20-30 years ago.

You can control understeer with the throttle too. Get off the gas and it's gone.  It's not as much fun but it's a lot safer. 

Although a fwd car with a hand brake can be a hoot in the snow. 

[mixmanmash]

On dry roads, I agree but in less than perfect conditions, I'll take fwd anytime.  About the only vehicles in mass production still using rwd are pickups.   Every year I see a few wild tail out situations with them but I've yet to be hit.  One woman I know keeps about 500 pounds of patio stones in the back to keep the tail down.

What mainstream vehicles now are rwd?  I don't think too many.  If I had it, I'd certainly get a limited slip dif to go with it - not a bad idea for fwd either.

The last rwd vehicle I had was an Alfa Berlina but it had nearly a 50/50 weight distribution.  The bottom line is you have to have weight over the drive wheels.  Technology can cover, mask and optimize but it can't make up for lightly loaded drive wheels.

Cheers,
John M.

Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger are RWD and those are mainstream.  Most police forces prefer RWD platform.

[mixmanmash]

It's amazing to me that a poster here would try to imply that rear wheel drive is as good as fwd in the snow.   I believe that small fwd cars caught on as quickly as they did in this country because of the immense advantage fwd has in low traction situations.

The first morning of snow in my Rabbit I almost got into two accidents because I accelerated very quickly and then had to brake.  Well, just like AWD novices, you discover that a huge improvement in acceleration does not equal any improvement in braking or cornering.    Recalibration is necessary.

FWD vs RWD is no contest in snow and ice.

Cheers,
John M.

1 word that makes FWD suck - understeer.  At least with RWD, you can control it with application of throttle.

RWD is not what it use to be 20-30 years ago.

You can control understeer with the throttle too. Get off the gas and it's gone.  It's not as much fun but it's a lot safer. 

Although a fwd car with a hand brake can be a hoot in the snow.

I agree for the 99% of drivers out there.  I personally have spent plenty of time in both and prefer RWD.  It's way easier to control when things are going haywire whereas FWD is a lot more difficult.  A good AWD system can be fun too.

And in some situations, FWD will continue to understeer after you let off the throttle and you have no hope.  At least in RWD you can dial in a bit of oversteer to help.

[JohnM]

"Although a fwd car with a hand brake can be a hoot in the snow. "

My record is drifting a complete on-ramp in a Golf.  Beautiful balance with the right tires and snow coverage.

Cheers,
John M.