Topic: Ford C-MAX Canadian Fuel Economy Figures Announced

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Now put that in you pipe and smoke it.
The one thing that I would agree is they are standardized allowing for a comparison between like tested vehicles, but unless anyone is practicing Hypermileage techniques those posted numbers especially the Canadian numbers are far out of reach.

Consumer group cries foul on Hyundai's 40-mpg claim
http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/newsrelease/consumer-watchdog-urges-epa-re-test-elantra-40-mpg-claim-hold-hyundai-account

No question, the Transport Canada's numbers aren't realistic. The EPA changed their test a few years ago. Now they hit more realistic speeds (80mph) and full throttle acceleration. Most people should be able to this those numbers.

[TopGun]

....

That C-Max is gonna be craptastic.  First time Ford is using their version of the Toyota "eCVT" (11 years of refinement).  Good luck
....

These statements are just as moronic as they were a year ago.

No matter how it drives...it's all about mileage sports fans....nothing to see here folks.

[rrocket]

Looks solid.  Should be a really fine choice as long as reliability and pricing is in line with the segment leader.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

....

That C-Max is gonna be craptastic.  First time Ford is using their version of the Toyota "eCVT" (11 years of refinement).  Good luck
....

These statements are just as moronic as they were a year ago.

No matter how it drives...it's all about mileage sports fans....nothing to see here folks.

Better interior, better handling, 50 more HP, cheaper (in the US at least) and better mileage. Ford seem to have it sorted out pretty well.

Ford developed their own drive system years ago concurrently with Toyota. To avoid a legal harangue, Toyota allowed the use of stuff it held patents on in exchange for their use of stuff Ford held patents on. Nothing new here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive#Ford

[rrocket]

Better interior, better handling, 50 more HP, cheaper (in the US at least) and better mileage. Ford seem to have it sorted out pretty well.

Are we getting shafted as per usual?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

C-Max starts at $27,199, Prius V starts at $27,200. Maybe not the whole shaft, just the tip. 

[ArticSteve]

Ford developed their own drive system years ago concurrently with Toyota. To avoid a legal harangue, Toyota allowed the use of stuff it held patents on in exchange for their use of stuff Ford held patents on. Nothing new here.

The NEW part is that Toyota is no longer selling their eCVT to Ford.

Up till this model year Ford has been BUYING and installing their hybrid eCVT system from Aisin AW which is 52% owned by Toyota.  In other words, the Ford Fusion has been using the exact same eCVT as the Camry Hybrid.  Not under license.  Ford has been purchasing the actual hardware from Toyota.

The agreement is finished and Ford has been forced to develop their own eCVT.

  Perhaps more newsworthy is Ford’s development of an eCVT for hybrid vehicles, as it reinforces the automaker’s commitment to hybrid technology. Ford has spent some $135 million on the design, engineering and manufacturing of components for hybrid, plug-in hybrid and battery electric vehicles over the past year, and will begin production of the new eCVT at their Van Dyke Transmission Plant later this year. By next spring, Ford expects to build more hybrid transmissions in North America than any other automaker or component supplier.

The new eCVT will replace a unit Ford previously sourced from Japan, and will offer ‘improved performance’ compared to the existing hybrid transmission. As with the eight-speed automatic, look for further detail on Ford’s eCVT to be forthcoming

Ford is keeping this new tranny on the low down and for good reason.  What customer wants to be a test pilot for a new Ford transmission all of which come out of the box with issues.  But the "improved performance" just might make up for it.       

[redman]

C-Max starts at $27,199, Prius V starts at $27,200. Maybe not the whole shaft, just the tip. 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Ford developed their own drive system years ago concurrently with Toyota. To avoid a legal harangue, Toyota allowed the use of stuff it held patents on in exchange for their use of stuff Ford held patents on. Nothing new here.

The NEW part is that Toyota is no longer selling their eCVT to Ford.

Up till this model year Ford has been BUYING and installing their hybrid eCVT system from Aisin AW which is 52% owned by Toyota.  In other words, the Ford Fusion has been using the exact same eCVT as the Camry Hybrid.  Not under license.  Ford has been purchasing the actual hardware from Toyota.

The agreement is finished and Ford has been forced to develop their own eCVT.

  Perhaps more newsworthy is Ford’s development of an eCVT for hybrid vehicles, as it reinforces the automaker’s commitment to hybrid technology. Ford has spent some $135 million on the design, engineering and manufacturing of components for hybrid, plug-in hybrid and battery electric vehicles over the past year, and will begin production of the new eCVT at their Van Dyke Transmission Plant later this year. By next spring, Ford expects to build more hybrid transmissions in North America than any other automaker or component supplier.

The new eCVT will replace a unit Ford previously sourced from Japan, and will offer ‘improved performance’ compared to the existing hybrid transmission. As with the eight-speed automatic, look for further detail on Ford’s eCVT to be forthcoming

Ford is keeping this new tranny on the low down and for good reason.  What customer wants to be a test pilot for a new Ford transmission all of which come out of the box with issues.  But the "improved performance" just might make up for it.     

This is supposed to prove what exactly? That Aisin produced the transmissions? We know that. They also produced the Mazda transmissions that had a habit of detonating as well as the one in the LR2. Using your logic, they were Toyota too. 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

C-Max starts at $27,199, Prius V starts at $27,200. Maybe not the whole shaft, just the tip. 

 

[ArticSteve]

This is supposed to prove what exactly? That Aisin produced the transmissions?

That Ford BOUGHT (not traded patent rights as you so lamely  attempted to infer) the Camry Hybrid transmission for their 2011=2012 Fusion Hybrid.  A MASTERPIECE of engineering developed well over a decade by 2 million test pilots without failure.  A single drive, non variable, direct drive unit.  No wonder ppl love the Fusion Hybrid.  No operating issues whatsoever unlike every other transmission Ford brings to market.

Now for 2013, it's a Ford creation.   

And for your viewing pleasure yet another review again indicating that the C-Max is a 39 mpg car, BEST CASE SENARIO.  You'd think that after decades of BS Ford would stop the fibbing and just level with their customers.

Oh those poor Ford service advisors.  Customers will come in and complain about the mileage; that somethings wrong with the car, and those guys will just have to stand there and take it all the while knowing sweet fack all can be done.  That those buyers got OWNED by Ford, AGAIN.   

On paper, the C-Max is EPA-rated for 47 MPG in the city and 47 MPG on the highway, with a combined figure of -- anyone want to guess? -- 47 MPG. Ford is quick to compare that to the Prius (51/48) and the Prius v (44/40). But in my brief drive, which consisted of freeway and city streets, I averaged just 39 MPG; driving similar roads in Toyota hybrids, I've never had any trouble getting 45 or better without expending any particular effort beyond pressing the "Eco mode" button 

http://cars.about.com/od/ford/fr/2013-Ford-C-Max-Hybrid-Review.htm

[Sir Osis of Liver]

This is supposed to prove what exactly? That Aisin produced the transmissions?

That Ford BOUGHT (not traded patent rights as you so lamely  attempted to infer) the Camry Hybrid transmission for their 2011=2012 Fusion Hybrid.  A MASTERPIECE of engineering developed well over a decade by 2 million test pilots without failure.  A single drive, non variable, direct drive unit.  No wonder ppl love the Fusion Hybrid.  No operating issues whatsoever unlike every other transmission Ford brings to market.

Now for 2013, it's a Ford creation.   

And for your viewing pleasure yet another review again indicating that the C-Max is a 39 mpg car, BEST CASE SENARIO.  You'd think that after decades of BS Ford would stop the fibbing and just level with their customers.

Oh those poor Ford service advisors.  Customers will come in and complain about the mileage; that somethings wrong with the car, and those guys will just have to stand there and take it all the while knowing sweet fack all can be done.  That those buyers got OWNED by Ford, AGAIN.   

On paper, the C-Max is EPA-rated for 47 MPG in the city and 47 MPG on the highway, with a combined figure of -- anyone want to guess? -- 47 MPG. Ford is quick to compare that to the Prius (51/48) and the Prius v (44/40). But in my brief drive, which consisted of freeway and city streets, I averaged just 39 MPG; driving similar roads in Toyota hybrids, I've never had any trouble getting 45 or better without expending any particular effort beyond pressing the "Eco mode" button 

http://cars.about.com/od/ford/fr/2013-Ford-C-Max-Hybrid-Review.htm

You are sooo full of , as usual.

The reality is that Ford independently developed its own hybrid system at the same time Toyota was doing its own. The basic architecture of both systems is the same and both are based on the concepts developed and patented by TRW engineers in the late 1960s. When Ford introduced the Escape Hybrid, Toyota went after the Blue Oval for infringing on its patents. Ford had patents of its own on the technology that Toyota was using. Eventually, the two companies reached a cross-licensing agreement that gives both companies the right to build their own systems. Such cross-licensing agreements are common in these kinds of cases, but Ford did not use the Toyota hybrid system. The only other company that uses Toyota's system is Nissan for its Altima hybrid, and they actually buy hardware from Toyota.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/07/03/once-more-with-feeling-ford-does-not-use-the-toyota-hybrid-syst/

[ArticSteve]

Thats all very nice, but the HYBRID SYSTEMs aren't the discussion.    The sorry fact is that Ford has been buying Toyota's, as "MADE IN JAPAN", eCVT.  So if you thought the 2012 Fusion Hybrid was phenomenally smooth and seamless you'd be right, because it was 100% TOYOTA.

Now Ford has developed and manufactured their own with eCVT with "Enhanced Performance"   Always with the marketing BS these American companies.    Now earlier adopters of this C-Max and 2013 Fusion will be the transmission test pilots for Ford.

Regardless, the MPG on the C-Max is just another bold face FIBAROONI from Ford which will certainly alienate a swath of Ford buyers not unlike "My Touch" which should be renamed "I Don't Want To Touch". 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Thats all very nice, but the HYBRID SYSTEMs aren't the discussion.    The sorry fact is that Ford has been buying Toyota's, as "MADE IN JAPAN", eCVT.  So if you thought the 2012 Fusion Hybrid was phenomenally smooth and seamless you'd be right, because it was 100% TOYOTA.

Now Ford has developed and manufactured their own with eCVT with "Enhanced Performance"   Always with the marketing BS these American companies.    Now earlier adopters of this C-Max and 2013 Fusion will be the transmission test pilots for Ford.

Regardless, the MPG on the C-Max is just another bold face FIBAROONI from Ford which will certainly alienate a swath of Ford buyers not unlike "My Touch" which should be renamed "I Don't Want To Touch". 

Not even trying anymore Stevie. Very difficult to take you seriously at this point.

Ford has been using Aisin transmissions for years, like the fragile 5 speed manual in the F150, and the 6 speed auto in the Fusion and Taurus. They were actually designed in conjunction with GM. They are just another transmission manufacturer just as Getrag, Tremec or ZF that Ford also uses. Toyota doesn't enter into it beyond the patent sharing.

The C-Max is heavier, handles better and has 55 more hp, not to mention a much better interior, yet still gets better or similar mileage to the V.
This is a replay of the previous Fusion and Camry hybrids. The Fords could beat it all day long.

For genuine collaboration, engineers from both companies are working on hybrid pickups at Fords Advanced Electrification Center.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/ford-f-150-hybrid-to-borrow-toyota-technology/

They are also working together on standardising telematics hardware.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1065334_ford-toyota-team-up-on-telematics-whats-it-mean-for-you