Topic: Canada to Crackdown on Heavy Duty Vehicle Emissions

[Autos_Editor]

The Honourable Peter Kent, Canada's Environment Minister, announced proposed regulations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from new on-road heavy-duty vehicles.

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[Guy]

The picture in the aticle is very misleading. There has been drastic reductions in on-road heavy duty diesel engines since 2004. Ultra low sulphur fuel and DPF (Diesel particulate filters) was introduced in 2007 and Urea and SCR's were introduced in 2010. No current production diesel engine can smoke like that. A 1990 yes, a 2012 no!

There will be further mandated reductions in emissions but these bring with them further complexities in the engine and emissions control systems.

[Mike]

The picture in the aticle is very misleading. There has been drastic reductions in on-road heavy duty diesel engines since 2004. Ultra low sulphur fuel and DPF (Diesel particulate filters) was introduced in 2007 and Urea and SCR's were introduced in 2010. No current production diesel engine can smoke like that. A 1990 yes, a 2012 no!

There will be further mandated reductions in emissions but these bring with them further complexities in the engine and emissions control systems.

I know, I was just trying to find a dirty diesel truck

[redman]

It's difficult to get the Ultra efficient diesels in North America due to the high content of Sulfur. Apparently low sulfur fuels are old news as the push now is for Ultra low sulfur fuel of zero ppm or close to it

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/03/american-gasoline-too-dirty-for-new-mercedes-engines.html

[blur911]

It's difficult to get the Ultra efficient diesels in North America due to the high content of Sulfur. Apparently low sulfur fuels are old news as the push now is for Ultra low sulfur fuel of zero ppm or close to it

A friend with a farm told me they have to now add fuel supplements to the tractor diesel because with the low sulphur also comes lower lubricity which will take out the engine in short order if they are not designed for such.

[tpl]

It's difficult to get the Ultra efficient diesels in North America due to the high content of Sulfur. Apparently low sulfur fuels are old news as the push now is for Ultra low sulfur fuel of zero ppm or close to it

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/03/american-gasoline-too-dirty-for-new-mercedes-engines.html

It would be good to get road diesel and road gasoline down to <5ppm measured at any given retail pump at any time rather than at the refinery.

A friend with a farm told me they have to now add fuel supplements to the tractor diesel because with the low sulphur also comes lower lubricity which will take out the engine in short order if they are not designed for such.

Wasn't there a similar problem with older engines when the tetra-ethyl Lead disappeared from gasoline?
AT the limit it meant replacing valves and valve guides.  Could not the same sort of thing be done with diesels?  Or is that some of the farm equipment is so antiquated that nobody makes parts anymore?

[blur911]

Wasn't there a similar problem with older engines when the tetra-ethyl Lead disappeared from gasoline?
AT the limit it meant replacing valves and valve guides.  Could not the same sort of thing be done with diesels?  Or is that some of the farm equipment is so antiquated that nobody makes parts anymore?

Yes, there was a problem with valve guides and seats and un-leaded fuel.

Apparently with the tractors, it's not just the old ones, it's the new diesels too.  Sorry I have no details, just a conversation I had.

[tpl]

Wasn't there a similar problem with older engines when the tetra-ethyl Lead disappeared from gasoline?
AT the limit it meant replacing valves and valve guides.  Could not the same sort of thing be done with diesels?  Or is that some of the farm equipment is so antiquated that nobody makes parts anymore?

Yes, there was a problem with valve guides and seats and un-leaded fuel.

Apparently with the tractors, it's not just the old ones, it's the new diesels too.  Sorry I have no details, just a conversation I had.

That is weird.  The low sulphur thing is getting on for 10 years ago now isn't it?  I gasoline, don't when it happened in diesel in NA.   I remember in the '90s on holiday in France suddenly one year the smell of burnt diesel disappeared and here in the late '90s from my office in Richmond Hill the yellow sky over TO got much less yellow over a couple of years.

Now I know when road fule lost its sulphur here in Canada that diesel for trains, stationary engines and maybe farm equipmnet was allowed higher amounts for a year or two " to synchronize with the USA" where, IIRC the trucking industry was fighting a losing lawsuit against having to pay a few cents more per litre.

[blur911]

Wasn't there a similar problem with older engines when the tetra-ethyl Lead disappeared from gasoline?
AT the limit it meant replacing valves and valve guides.  Could not the same sort of thing be done with diesels?  Or is that some of the farm equipment is so antiquated that nobody makes parts anymore?

Yes, there was a problem with valve guides and seats and un-leaded fuel.

Apparently with the tractors, it's not just the old ones, it's the new diesels too.  Sorry I have no details, just a conversation I had.

That is weird.  The low sulphur thing is getting on for 10 years ago now isn't it?  I gasoline, don't when it happened in diesel in NA.   I remember in the '90s on holiday in France suddenly one year the smell of burnt diesel disappeared and here in the late '90s from my office in Richmond Hill the yellow sky over TO got much less yellow over a couple of years.

Now I know when road fule lost its sulphur here in Canada that diesel for trains, stationary engines and maybe farm equipmnet was allowed higher amounts for a year or two " to synchronize with the USA" where, IIRC the trucking industry was fighting a losing lawsuit against having to pay a few cents more per litre.

Amongst other things the John Deere additive is for this:
·        Lubricity Improver for added protection and reduced fuel injection and pump wear when using Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel
https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5496_fb_SummerWinterDieselConditioner.htm

You also used to be able to run furnace oil in a diesel, don't try it now as it'll take out the engine, use stove oil if you must.

[tpl]

from that jd site

Yes. The need to use a diesel fuel conditioner is now more important than ever. Diesel fuel quality can vary dramatically from source to source and even day to day. Inconsistent fuel quality can result in customer dissatisfaction over equipment life and performance. In addition, many diesel fuels (regular or premium) are designed for near term use in on-highway equipment. John Deere Fuel-Protect Diesel Fuel Conditioner is strong enough to bring most any diesel fuel up to acceptable standards and will allow for optimum performance in any diesel engine. Therefore, it is recommended that John Deere Fuel-Protect Diesel Fuel Conditioner be used throughout the year.

Why is this   why is it not mostly all the same like gasoline. Does it not all come from the same distributors
On road use is different then...ok.   I can see that adding stuff to a bulk fuel tank is a good idea just like stabilizer to boat and garden eqpt tanks.

[Guy]

Ultra low sulphur fuel was mandated and introduced in 2007 in North America. The diesel particulate filter, DPF on heavy duty diesel, will plug up immediately if anything else than ultra low sulphur fuel is used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel

[redman]

Sulfur is not a lubricant in of itself, but it can combine with the nickel content in many metal alloys to form a low melting point eutectic alloy that can increase lubricity. The process used to reduce the sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel.

[RX7heaven]

The Canadian Lung Associations slogan "When you can't breath - nothing else matters!" applies here. Diesel fumes can have a lot of fine particulate matter that can get deep down into the lungs. I have to close my car windows when driving through clouds of train exhaust on a nearby railway overpass. Do locomotives have any emission regulation?