Author Topic: I think I peed my pants laughing at this TS Wheels article (Read 783 times)

Wheelboy · « **on:** January 28, 2012, 04:38:11 am »

Have fun -

http://www.wheels.ca/columns/article/802353

safristi · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2012, 06:34:08 am »

"WHEELS"BOY u related

...and the wheels go round till they FALLS OFF.................P.S. I'm charging all readers of this post 0.01Cents to cover my BAR TAB

by the way i still get Free WHEELS mag..been going on 3 years after a cheap 1 year subscription...'spose they have to keep the CIRCULATION NUMBERS UP by deception!!! like Dealers fees to pay their salaries

tenpenny · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2012, 07:32:51 am »

That article is hilarious, I wonder who is sup
posed to believe it? The most heavily regulated industry is the retail car business?

CanuckG35 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2012, 09:05:28 am »

Quote from: tenpenny on January 28, 2012, 07:32:51 am

That article is hilarious, I wonder who is sup
posed to believe it? The most heavily regulated industry is the retail car business?

And don't forget that 100% of the people at dealerships play by the rules too.

Snowman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2012, 09:17:14 am »

The part of John’s letter that is not only wrong, but insulting, is the contention that dealers deliberately deceive their customers. This is a classic default argument made by those who don’t understand (or don’t want to understand) the realities of the car business.

Wheelboy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2012, 10:26:14 am »

Quote from: Snowman on January 28, 2012, 09:17:14 am

The part of John’s letter that is not only wrong, but insulting, is the contention that dealers deliberately deceive their customers. This is a classic default argument made by those who don’t understand (or don’t want to understand) the realities of the car business.

Thanks for reminding me. Yep, that's the point where I weed my pants.

johngenx · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2012, 10:32:43 am »

I wonder if he levels the same criticism against banks, mutual fund companies, utility companies, airlines and ticketing agencies, all of which include admin fees on each transaction.

I do. I try hard not to pay them. (I pay no service charges to the bank, don't own mutual funds, fly as little as possible and complain about ridiculous fixed charges on my utility bill...)

Most of those industries are ones that have no idea of what customer service is. Banks mistreat a great many of their customers (I was an assistant bank manager for my first out-of-university job) targeting low income customers and milking them for outrageous fees. Banks, under the Schedule A Charter, were granted an oligopoly that works as a monopoly, and in return were to provide banking to all Canadians. The hubris of banks towards lower income clients forced me to leave the industry despite having a solid job in a horrible recession. (14% unemployment)

Airlines are at the mercy of government that levies huge fees, but airlines are not blameless. I have never bought a service where I was treated with such contempt.

I won't go into the mutual fund industry and the destruction of minority shareholder rights and lack of accountability in terms of the executive suites of large companies. There are lots of funds without front end fees. When I was in banking, I was looking at moving into the brokerage end of the business. If you're familiar with the term "churn them and burn them" you'll know why transaction fees can be detrimental to clients.

But, cars are NOT those things. They're cars. Cars are marked up, and the idea is that the dealer pays their staff and covers their costs from the margin they earn on the sale of the car and the earnings of the service department.

What REALLY burns me is when the admin fee magically shows up after a price has been agreed on. Deal is off then.

Snowman · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:15:52 am »

I leaned a long time ago the clients only want to see one price all in. The last thing they want to see is some admin or IT charges on top of an agreed price. One long time clent took me aside one day and explained that he does not care if it took me 400 hours to complete a 600 hour job just never send him an invoice for 601 hours

safristi · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:34:17 am »

I'm slow in coming! ... to a purchae.but 601 HOURS...were ya building a Mansion in Oakville....

airbalancer · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:41:16 am »

Quote from: Snowman on January 28, 2012, 11:15:52 am

I leaned a long time ago the clients only want to see one price all in. The last thing they want to see is some admin or IT charges on top of an agreed price. One long time clent took me aside one day and explained that he does not care if it took me 400 hours to complete a 600 hour job just never send him an invoice for 601 hours

or truck cost, mileage etc
I hate getting a lawyer bill and there is cost for photocopying

safristi · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2012, 01:00:07 pm »

Wot no extras fer shtuppin their hot assistant......!!! U got off!!!!

LUCKY...

Cord · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2012, 01:31:38 pm »

Quote

I hate getting a lawyer bill and there is cost for photocopying

Oh ya, I hate that too.

But back to the article in question. The author is a fool. Mindless self-promotion is rarely compelling.

Admin fees are 'necessary' in a car deal? Good lord, what an argument to try to make. They only exist because they can. They are legal and most importantly, people pay them.

IMO, admin fees are just one off-shoot of the worst (for consumers) development in car retailing - the invention of the finance office. Anyone that was in the business in the 70s will tell you, dealer profit on vehicle sales is a mere fraction of what it once was - mainly due to increased competition. So from the dealership perspective, the invention of the finance office was a logical development to maintain profits.

Did you know that finance managers are some of the highest paid employees in a typical dealership? Again, imo, they are also the lowest in character. These are the sociopaths of the car business. Ideally, they have little empathy and a laser-like drive to extract cash from customers, from banks, from insurance companies, and even from other parts of the dealership. Women are extremely successful in these positions as people innately trust women more than men. The average sales department employee is a philanthropic saint compared to the average finance manager. And these managers are usually revered by owners and upper management because they represent a significant profit centre.

You know what pisses off salespeople the most? Having to disclose a $400 fee that the finance manager gets paid on. And if the customer won't pay it, it comes out of the deal profit which costs the salesperson money. Every salesperson has complained about that at some point in their career.

Personally, I would love to see admin fees legislated out of existence. It is fine that some manufacturers prohibit them but that only matters for new cars. For used cars legislation is the only answer. Unless people suddenly stop buying at places that charge admin fees. But we all know that will never happen.

airbalancer · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2012, 02:41:28 pm »

Did you know that finance managers are some of the highest paid employees in a typical dealership?

I know and is paid on comminision not by the hour or salary

PJungnitsch · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2012, 03:13:21 pm »

It's just a subdivision of the whole dealer price, in my mind. Total up all the extra fees and negotiate on the whole works. No problem for the last two vehicles I bought.

What I hate is if they try and slip these things in after, I saw it when my parents bought the Versa, and it made me furious, 'Hey lets take advantage of the old people'. But it was their buy and nothing I could do. I think Cord did an excellent job of describing the type of person that does well in the position.

tenpenny · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2012, 04:02:29 pm »

I don't mind that dealerships have to make money; in my business, we're expected to make money, too. What I don't like is the way stuff is added to the price. Quote me a price, and that's what we'll agree on. Don't give me a price, and then tell me there's extra charges if I actually want to purchase it.

johngenx · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2012, 04:13:19 pm »

Quote from: Cord on January 28, 2012, 01:31:38 pm

You know what pisses off salespeople the most? Having to disclose a $400 fee that the finance manager gets paid on. And if the customer won't pay it, it comes out of the deal profit which costs the salesperson money. Every salesperson has complained about that at some point in their career.

Holy $hit would that pi$$ me off!! You have to charge the customer an extra $$$ fee that isn't in your compensation, but if they don't pay it, then you eat it? My cord would snap... (anyone see what I did there..?)

Quote from: Cord on January 28, 2012, 01:31:38 pm

Unless people suddenly stop buying at places that charge admin fees. But we all know that will never happen.

That's me, but I know I'm one of damned few. It's one of the reasons I'm still driving my old Forester. We actually had a deal on a low-km Highlander and the dealer added an admin fee. I said "no deal" and they offered to drop it, but I was too pi$$ed off to continue.

fnbill · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2012, 05:37:32 pm »

go to omvic.on.ca/pdf/All-In%20Ads%20Bulletin.pdf

As of Jan 2010 they cant add on to advertised prices. Just had a dealer try that with me, i walked....

Cord · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2012, 05:48:10 pm »

Quote from: fnbill on January 28, 2012, 05:37:32 pm

go to omvic.on.ca/pdf/All-In%20Ads%20Bulletin.pdf

As of Jan 2010 they cant add on to advertised prices. Just had a dealer try that with me, i walked....

Sure, we've discussed that before. It basically applies only to ads in newspapers and it only applies if you buy at the advertised price. Ask for a $200 discount and the dealer can add on a $300 fee. Groups like OMVIC and AMVIC need more teeth. And people like you actually need to complain to these groups when you come across a violation.

richink · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2012, 08:07:54 pm »

PANG! Is all I have to say about the subject.

Then the savvy consumer buys at the bottom line INCLUDING all fees and taxes, nothing else.

Wheelboy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2012, 10:40:10 pm »

Quote from: Cord on January 28, 2012, 05:48:10 pm

Groups like OMVIC and AMVIC need more teeth. And people like you actually need to complain to these groups when you come across a violation.

A VW dealer told me that Admin, etching and nitrogen were mandatory and could not be waived. I walked. When I got home an e-mail was waiting for me and it explained that he was wrong and the charges would be waived if I returned. Of course I had no intention of doing so. I contacted OMVIC and complained about the "mandatory" fees. The woman there asked me this "But did they actually charge you those fees?" I replied that of course they didn't as I walked out. She then explained that there was no problem and nothing could (would?) be done as nothing was done wrong. That's how much use OMVIC is. I wasted my time phoning them. I'll bet No-ONE ever complains AFTER they have paid those fees. I'll bet most buyers are only too pleased to pay for nitrogen, etching and other goodies after the sales fella has finished his (well-rehearsed) motivational speech. Plus they're so slick at explaining what the rest of the Admin is for. After all, how can we refuse them money after they explain that someone has to go all the way down to the license office and stand in line.