Author Topic: Preview: 2013 Scion FR-S (Read 2251 times)

Autos_Editor · « **on:** January 23, 2012, 08:02:05 am »

Arriving mid-year, the high performance rear-wheel drive Scion FR-S coupe 'is something of a return to minimalist fun.'

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richink · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2012, 08:35:20 am »

"A solid roof instead of a sunroof and a trunk instead of a hatch"

"large enough to transport a full set of race tires for a fun day at the track"

C'mon guys, get real. I don't buy the whole rigidity thing with coupes vs. hatchbacks and the sunroof delete. If that were true my Civic SiR would handle like a boat, and it's both a hatchback AND sunroof equipped. 99% of the people who will buy a BR-Z or an FR-S won't have it anywhere near a race track ever, except possibly as a spectator. I can handle the hatchback v.s coupe thing, but no sunroof? No Subie/Toyota half breed for me. Stop being so cheap.

Vmango · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2012, 08:39:43 am »

If you aren't going to buy this because of the sunroof, you weren't going to buy this anyway........

Mike · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2012, 08:53:18 am »

Quote from: richink on January 23, 2012, 08:35:20 am

"A solid roof instead of a sunroof and a trunk instead of a hatch"

"large enough to transport a full set of race tires for a fun day at the track"

C'mon guys, get real. I don't buy the whole rigidity thing with coupes vs. hatchbacks and the sunroof delete. If that were true my Civic SiR would handle like a boat, and it's both a hatchback AND sunroof equipped. 99% of the people who will buy a BR-Z or an FR-S won't have it anywhere near a race track ever, except possibly as a spectator. I can handle the hatchback v.s coupe thing, but no sunroof? No Subie/Toyota half breed for me. Stop being so cheap.

Handling and rigidity are not the same thing. A true sports car would never have a sunroof, there was a reason the Corvette Z06 only came in fixed hard top/non-hatchback form. Guess what else comes with no sunroof and trunk only? Nissan GT-R

Sunroof's also add to a higher center of gravity. Sticking with your Honda example, try to find a real Acura Integra Type R with a factory sunroof.

The civic is a wet noddle in comparison to a real sports car when it comes to rigidity.

johngenx · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2012, 08:59:21 am »

Sunroofs also make it hard to wear a helmet inside the car...

Snowman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2012, 09:10:08 am »

Quote from: richink on January 23, 2012, 08:35:20 am

"A solid roof instead of a sunroof and a trunk instead of a hatch"

"large enough to transport a full set of race tires for a fun day at the track"

C'mon guys, get real. I don't buy the whole rigidity thing with coupes vs. hatchbacks and the sunroof delete. If that were true my Civic SiR would handle like a boat, and it's both a hatchback AND sunroof equipped. 99% of the people who will buy a BR-Z or an FR-S won't have it anywhere near a race track ever, except possibly as a spectator. I can handle the hatchback v.s coupe thing, but no sunroof? No Subie/Toyota half breed for me. Stop being so cheap.

Clearly you do not understand and a sports car is not for you.

D70 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2012, 09:38:35 am »

Can't wait for the roadster version to follow

Jaeger · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2012, 09:39:22 am »

Quote from: Vmango on January 23, 2012, 08:39:43 am

If you aren't going to buy this because of the sunroof, you weren't going to buy this anyway........

No kidding. Talk about missing the point.

Jaeger

dougjp · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2012, 09:40:11 am »

"large enough to transport a full set of race tires for a fun day at the track"

Within a half second my thought was, what happens when going in for warranty work, will anyone remember the marketing blather.....

ajay · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:02:43 am »

I'm glad it doesn't have a sunroof , don't need anything cutting into the headroom as it is .

scubacruiser · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:12:48 am »

They should have called this the Toyota Celica.

redman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:25:12 am »

I noticed that Toy/Sub opted out of offering a dual clutch unit as an option, siting cost and weight. I'd pay the extra $$ for it. As much as I like stick, driving back and fourth to Toronto and being stuck in traffic it would be nice to switch to auto. Not mentioned in this article but I believe this vehicle will be running Toyota's D4-S Twin Fuel Injection which is capable of running both direct injection an traditional port fuel injection at the same time. Been long while since I've been excited about a Toyota....nice change.
My favorite line in regarding the Toyota86 prototype to this car from Wiki "According to chief engineer Tetsuya Tada, the unique shoujyouhi red colour was based on the colour of a Japanese monkey's backside" ....yep I can't even make up that S#%T (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_86)
I here a turbo version of the FA engine is being planned for the WRX, wonder if it will trickle down to this car.
Bling that up....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Toyota_FT-86_Gs1001.JPG

articsteve · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2012, 11:20:53 am »

A true sports car would never have a sunroof

But have a six speed auto with flappy paddles

,

or AC, power windows, power locks, .....

I'm sure a sun roof is already in the mix. Toyota is attempting to revive Scion and to understand the Scion "story" is to embrace sun roofs and 9 speaker stereos.

How much does this thing weight

Eventually, this unit is going to require more power so it's just a question of how many years will they put a hold on the turbo charged unit.

garytam · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2012, 11:26:35 am »

Quote from: Mike on January 23, 2012, 08:53:18 am

Handling and rigidity are not the same thing. A true sports car would never have a sunroof, there was a reason the Corvette Z06 only came in fixed hard top/non-hatchback form. Guess what else comes with no sunroof and trunk only? Nissan GT-R

Sunroof's also add to a higher center of gravity. Sticking with your Honda example, try to find a real Acura Integra Type R with a factory sunroof.

The civic is a wet noddle in comparison to a real sports car when it comes to rigidity.

I am hoping all the SPORT CARS fans will Trade in their Civic Si to buy the REAL SPort CAR

-- FR-S, and I can pick up a 2009 to 2011 slightly used Si for like 15 to 20K or so. ... .... I like Sun Roof anyway

I will drive my Si for another 3 to 4 years until the so called "sport car fans" will finally gave up the FR-S because of the small interior etc... and I will pick one up used again, for like 15 to 20K

richink · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2012, 11:29:50 am »

Quote from: dougjp on January 23, 2012, 09:40:11 am

"large enough to transport a full set of race tires for a fun day at the track"

Within a half second my thought was, what happens when going in for warranty work, will anyone remember the marketing blather.....

BING! Just like your insurance policy, admit to racing the thing and your warranty will VERY promptly go out the window.

Quote from: Snowman on January 23, 2012, 09:10:08 am

Clearly you do not understand and a sports car is not for you.

Quote from: Mike on January 23, 2012, 08:53:18 am

Handling and rigidity are not the same thing. A true sports car would never have a sunroof, there was a reason the Corvette Z06 only came in fixed hard top/non-hatchback form. Guess what else comes with no sunroof and trunk only? Nissan GT-R

Sunroof's also add to a higher center of gravity. Sticking with your Honda example, try to find a real Acura Integra Type R with a factory sunroof.

The civic is a wet noddle in comparison to a real sports car when it comes to rigidity.

Quote from: Jaeger on January 23, 2012, 09:39:22 am

Quote from: Vmango on January 23, 2012, 08:39:43 am
If you aren't going to buy this because of the sunroof, you weren't going to buy this anyway........

No kidding. Talk about missing the point.
Jaeger

Nope, I'm not missing the point, but if you'd like to elaborate I'm listening about how a sub $30k car is that much better because it doesn't have a simple option that appeals to people looking for this type of car. They won't sell a ton of these cars, cutting out nice features such as sunroof's further reduces their market on this car.

Since when will a sub $30k car compete against a Z06 or a GT-R? A true sports car regardless of dollar value? I doubt we can come up with an infalable formula. OK sure you can hop the car up and make it go fast, but with enough time, money & creativity you can turn a '92 Miata with 180,000 km's on it into a 500hp, track eating monster. My SiR does not handle at all like a wet noodle compared to anything within $10k of it's original sticker price, but then compare it against an $80,000 Corvette sure it will just like an FR-S or BR-Z will.

Handling and rigidity are two different but very INTEGRAl things to the overall behaviour of a car. There is absolutely no way to explain how a 30 pound sunroof will so adversely effect the abilities of any car insomuch to make it noticeable to the 99.999% who would buy such a vehicle. Open the sunroof and you can drive it Marmaduke style if your helmet head doesn't fit. I guess old GSR Integra's and Mini's are known for their wet noodle handling qualities.

Nuttygent · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2012, 12:49:13 pm »

It's a valid point, not many people would notice lack of rigidity in a hatchback and virtually no future FR-S owners will "track" their car. I'm just excited that we will have an affordable rear wheel drive car to purchase regardless of sun roofs and other options. We the people, read that as middle class, will finally have a chance at a great handling car!

Mike · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2012, 01:01:18 pm »

Quote

I guess old GSR Integra's and Mini's are known for their wet noodle handling qualities.

Compared to sports cars they are less rigid. It is a matter of physics that fixed roofs and sealed rear sections flex less.

You are still lumping handling and rigidity into the same thing. Rigidity improves handling and increase driving feel/chassis reactions. A car can still handle alright without it.

Think of how much better a GS-R or Mini would handle with a rollcage (increased rigidity).

blur911 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2012, 01:19:47 pm »

Quote from: ajay on January 23, 2012, 10:02:43 am

I'm glad it doesn't have a sunroof , don't need anything cutting into the headroom as it is .

Exactly, a sunroof significantly reduced headroom and adds weight in the worst spot. One of the big things about the FR-S is low center of gravity and roofline.

I wish my 911 was sunroof delete, but every 911 that came to North America used to come with a sunroof and air-conditioning. I used to have a sore neck after every track day from my helmet hitting the roof.
To me a sunroof is something to leak and break at an inopportune moment. And simply a pain in the neck at the track.

Sir Osis of Liver · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2012, 01:36:53 pm »

Take a cardboard box. Cut out holes on the East and West faces. Those are the doors. Cut out a hole on the South face. That's the hatch. Cut out a hole on the top, that's the sunroof.

Every time a hole is cut, the box loses rigidity. To offset the loss, more bracing will need to be added, therefore more weight.

For a rwd car, this thing is pretty light, but add a big gaping hatch and a sunroof and the extra structure required to maintain the chassis stiffness, and it could easily add 200kg to the car.

wing · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2012, 01:43:26 pm »

Quote from: Nuttygent on January 23, 2012, 12:49:13 pm

no future FR-S owners will "track" their car.

I'm betting this will be a top car of choice at the SCCA so I suspect a lot of people will be tracking this car actually.