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Author Topic: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?  (Read 675 times)

Offline The Mighty Duck

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Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« on: January 15, 2012, 10:11:24 pm »
Happened across this blog post today. It's something I've thought of in passing (I'd kill to own an AWD Honda Fit, preferably with a small turbo), but never really stopped to really think about the question. Such cars exist in other markets (i.e., Japan), and I'm sure they'd be popular in Canada if a major manufacturer offered it. I know the SX4 is available in AWD, but Suzuki is a pretty small player...

I suppose part of the answer is that in Canada and the US, small cars are still seen as budget cars, and AWD adds to the cost. They're also perceived as being mainly about fuel efficiency, and AWD also hampers that.

But with premium small cars starting to make their way to our market, will AWD sub-compacts follow? I'm really hoping so... :D
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Offline quadzilla

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 10:27:37 pm »
I agree. Give me the Golf 4-motion TDi.
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Offline johngenx

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 10:30:38 pm »
What about AWD compacts?  The new Focus would be wicked with AWD, so would a Fiesta.

I'd like to see more take on the Impreza, but not follow Toyota's poor example with the Matrix giving it relatively poor fuel economy and a high base price.
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Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 10:39:32 pm »
Quote from: johngenx on January 15, 2012, 10:30:38 pm
What about AWD compacts?  The new Focus would be wicked with AWD, so would a Fiesta.

I'd like to see more take on the Impreza, but not follow Toyota's poor example with the Matrix giving it relatively poor fuel economy and a high base price.

I agree with that... an AWD Mazda3 would be a fantastic vehicle. And an AWD MazdaSpeed3 would be absolutely brilliant. That car should have been AWD from day one, imo...
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Offline mmret

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 11:03:16 pm »
Wouldn't AWD be seen as pretty useless in a large swath of the US? That's probably a reason.

(This excludes SUVs bought for image reasons, and people who buy furrrr baaa furrrrs)

I also wonder how much complexity/weight it would add to engineer a compact car to be able to accept a Haldex diff etc. for AWD, even if the base model was FWD. If it stuck on even 100lbs or $750 of cost to the base model just to make it AWD ready (for manufacturing purposes) that's going to be a killer I think on cars that sell for substantially under $20k in the US.
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 11:07:31 pm »
These were pretty nifty.

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Offline dr_spock

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 11:08:09 pm »
Isn't there an Audi A3 quattro model?


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Offline mmret

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 11:12:54 pm »
Quote from: dr_spock on January 15, 2012, 11:08:09 pm
Isn't there an Audi A3 quattro model?




Indeed there is. A sizeable premium over a Golf though.
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Offline vdk

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 11:23:13 pm »
Quote from: quadzilla on January 15, 2012, 10:27:37 pm
I agree. Give me the Golf 4-motion TDi.

Ah with a stick, xenons, sport suspension and 17s.
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Offline Fobroader

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 11:23:28 pm »
My mom has an SX4 with the AWD. I really like the little car, the fact the AWD is switchable is brilliant and with snow tires shes never needed more than it. The only problem is it has a slushbox, even worse its a CVT, Ive never been a fan of automatics on small cars but with a manual tranny and perhaps an aftermarket turbo....this car would be a scream.
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Offline johngenx

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 11:28:07 pm »
How many <$25,000 AWD vehicles are in our market?  Not many.

But, as pointed out, most makes see us as an extension of the US (+30% pricing...) in terms of products, so product lines are very similar.  AWD is a non-starter for the south-of-the-snow-belt section of the US.
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Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 11:59:51 pm »
Quote from: mmret on January 15, 2012, 11:03:16 pm
I also wonder how much complexity/weight it would add to engineer a compact car to be able to accept a Haldex diff etc. for AWD, even if the base model was FWD. If it stuck on even 100lbs or $750 of cost to the base model just to make it AWD ready (for manufacturing purposes) that's going to be a killer I think on cars that sell for substantially under $20k in the US.

I'm not sure about the specifics, but the Fit, Yaris, and Versa are already available in AWD variants. Just not outside of Japan.

Yes, it would add to the cost and reduce fuel mileage, but it'd be nice to see it as an option.
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Offline tpl

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 06:12:54 am »
To give this idea any chance of success Canada would need to do the following...a very simple thing, just a piece of Friday afternoon change to some regulations.

Permit cars that meet Euro and/or Japanese domestic market standards( with the exception of RHD) to be sold here.  I hope that if Canada does manage a FTA with the EU that this will follow but I doubt it.  I don't what standards are used in Korea.

It would make no noticeable difference to the total emissions, with the upcoming EU6 regulations some cars might be cleaner.
Overall I would not be surprised if Canada's total fuel consumption did not drop just a tiny amount.
No noticeable difference to crashability.  The EU standards are just as tough, just different.

but it would of course upset the CAW and  any cars imported would not be able to be sold on into the USA. But that is not a big market for 2nd hand cars anyway.
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Offline initial_D

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 07:32:39 am »
Don't see the point of the sub-compoact AWD vehicles in North America. Pricing in the JDM is different than here, there is a certain demand for premium / upgraded factory small cars, but here everything is "attainable". AWD doesn't make the car handle better.
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Online Mike

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 08:44:57 am »
Quote from: johngenx on January 15, 2012, 10:30:38 pm
What about AWD compacts?  The new Focus would be wicked with AWD, so would a Fiesta.

I'd like to see more take on the Impreza, but not follow Toyota's poor example with the Matrix giving it relatively poor fuel economy and a high base price.

Mitsubishi just entered the market with the Lancer SE.  It has the AWC paired with the old 2.4 L engine from the GTS Lancer.
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Offline richink

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2012, 08:59:54 am »
Most manufacturers have taken a crack at this at one time or another.

Basic facts are that people who generally buy sub-c cars are buying them because that's what fits into their budget.

Tack on an extra 2k to 3k for some version of AWD and you're priced out of what most folks can afford or want for a small car.
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Offline blur911

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2012, 10:37:49 am »
Quote from: richink on January 16, 2012, 08:59:54 am
Most manufacturers have taken a crack at this at one time or another.

Exactly, AWD Ford Tempo anyone?  ;D

But seriously, there's the Justy pictured above, there were Tercel and Civic wagon-type variants,  Mazda GTX turbo, AMC Spirit...
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Offline SaskSpecV

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2012, 11:14:33 am »
If you want an AWD sub-compact, there's always the Nissan Juke.  Just a little more ground clearance, that's all.  But its length certainly fits in the sub-compact category (4.1 metres, I believe).  Unfortunately, you get cargo capacity and passenger space that is exceeded by most sub-compacts as well...
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Offline richink

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2012, 02:00:54 pm »
Quote from: blur911 on January 16, 2012, 10:37:49 am

Exactly, AWD Ford Tempo anyone?  ;D
 

Wholly 4 wheel drive Batman! I knew Ford did some weird ass things with the Tempots (diesel being one of them) but that's got to be the weirdest one of them all. I just looked it up. Apparently coupes only, included an LSD in the back. No info on who made it or how reliable it was, but then it could have been boosted from Mazda as Ford and them were already in bed together by that point in the 80's.
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Online Mike

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Re: Where are the AWD sub-compacts?
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2012, 02:06:01 pm »
Quote from: richink on January 16, 2012, 02:00:54 pm
Quote from: blur911 on January 16, 2012, 10:37:49 am

Exactly, AWD Ford Tempo anyone?  ;D
 

Wholly 4 wheel drive Batman! I knew Ford did some weird ass things with the Tempots (diesel being one of them) but that's got to be the weirdest one of them all. I just looked it up. Apparently coupes only, included an LSD in the back. No info on who made it or how reliable it was, but then it could have been boosted from Mazda as Ford and them were already in bed together by that point in the 80's.

Yeah, the tempo was a strange car:

-coupe, sedan
-diesel, 4 cvylinder, V6
-auto or manaual with any of the engines
-fwd or awd
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