Topic: 15 passenger vans

[kenm]

The 15 passenger van debate flairs up once again.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2012/01/09/nb-bathurst-mothers-vans-626.html

[tenpenny]

One thing that people seem to miss is that it's the FORD vans that don't have extended wheelbases.  The GM ones do have extended wheelbases, and I believe the Dodge as well. 

Furthermore, one of the studies referenced says 'If your agency's travel activity includes the use of 15-passenger van transportation, you should take extra precautions to assure safe travel in these vehicles. Several published articles indicate that factors such as falling asleep, veering off of the road, driver inexperience, and traveling at inappropriate speeds are greater risk factors than normal in van rollovers. Inclement weather has been shown also to be a disproportionate contributor to van accidents'

[The Mighty Duck]

  Is there something about 15-passenger vans that makes them inherently unsafe vs. a 12-passenger van? It seems to me that the boys died in a tragic motor vehicle collision, but there's no indication that the van crashed because it was a 15-passenger model. The van was hit by a tractor trailer... almost any vehicle in a collision with a truck that size is going to come out a loser.

It sounds like the mothers are being hysterical... but maybe there's something I'm missing about these vans?

[airbalancer]

from the Toronto star story

After the deadly crash, police discovered the school van, a 15-seat 1997 Ford Econoline club wagon, had worn tires, badly adjusted brakes and was riddled with rust. And though the van had passed a safety test in late October 2007, it was not roadworthy when it headed to Moncton for a basketball game in January, according the RCMP mechanic who inspected it.

[The Mighty Duck]

from the Toronto star story

After the deadly crash, police discovered the school van, a 15-seat 1997 Ford Econoline club wagon, had worn tires, badly adjusted brakes and was riddled with rust. And though the van had passed a safety test in late October 2007, it was not roadworthy when it headed to Moncton for a basketball game in January, according the RCMP mechanic who inspected it.

Good info, thanks. Sounds like a case of bad maintenance, which is not limited just to 15-passenger vans.

I did some Googling, and this site states that "While driving 15-passenger vans is not always inherently dangerous, there are some situations that can result in erratic vehicle response that an inexperienced driver might not be able to control and which could result in a collision or rollover."

They go on to cite some of the common factors: "heavy loads, road and weather conditions, tire failure, excessive speed, consumption of alcohol, driver inattention and driver over-steering during an emergency maneuver." Essentially, all extraneous factors unrelated to the vehicle itself.

BC and Alberta both require drivers of these vans to possess more than a regular passenger-vehicle license. This seems to make sense, as the dangers of these vehicles seems to be drivers not knowing how to handle them, not a problem inherent to the design.

Now, that being said, maybe a "multi purpose activity bus" is less prone to these problems, even with an inexperienced driver? I really can't say. But this protest seems a bit much... the vans are pretty safe, as long as they're properly maintained and the drivers trained and certified appropriately.

[mmret]

I have two thoughts here.

1. Red herring.
2. First world problems.

[dr_spock]

Are you require to hold a class F license to drive one of those things?  Not sure what the equivalent is in NB.

[Cord]

I've always hated those things. Glad they don't make them anymore.

[tenpenny]

Is there something about 15-passenger vans that makes them inherently unsafe vs. a 12-passenger van?

The Ford design for the 15 pass model simply gobs on an extension on the back, which drastically overhangs the rear axle; if you load the van to the max, with 4 players in the back, it does make the van handle like a pig in a manure pit.

But that's not the complete story, as you can see.  Tires, road conditions, driver error, etc are big factors.

As to the comment by Cord, don't they still make them?  Ford shows a 15 passenger van on the website.

[Cord]

As to the comment by Cord, don't they still make them?  Ford shows a 15 passenger van on the website.

Not for long. Cargo and passenger versions will be replaced by Transit for 2013.

[Mike-NB]

I live in NB and every time a story happens that involves a 15 passenger van the media run to Bathurst to get a quote from these two mothers.  I know they and other families suffered a terrible loss, but they're well past their 15 minutes of fame. 

The accident had multiple causes, all of them cited in this thread.  The van had some mechanical problems, including worn all-season tires.  No one was wearing seatbelts (which likely didn't contribute to the deaths given the circumstances of the accident).  The weather that night was terrible.  That part of the highway is undivided two-lane.  The highway was snow-covered at the time of the accident so neither yellow centreline nor white shoulder markings would be visible.  (One theory of the accident is that the driver dropped a tire off the shoulder and lost control resolving that.) 

But... these mothers focus on one factor, and it seems to me the least of the contributing factors.  If this were an honest-to-god schoolbus that slid into the path of a loaded transport truck would the outcome be substantially different?  Likely not.

This is really a non-story.  It's a creation of reporters with nothing to report.