Topic: Steering You Right: Criminals behind the wheel

[Autos_Editor]

Drinking and driving is a crime that is most often committed by people who think they aren't criminals.

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[overtakeyouintheleftlane]

You are a criminal if you drink and drive. They teach you in driving school not to drink and drive. If you drink, you have many alternatives such as having a designated driver, sleeping over, sleeping at a hotel, taking a taxi, taking transit or even hiring a tow truck to tow your car home if the car must get home with you. These are also much cheaper alternatives compared to having a collision while impaired (deductible, legal costs, jail time, lawsuits, injuries, etc.).

There is no excuse to drink and drive. If you want to drink, you should plan ahead.

[AP]

Sometimes, someone who commits a crime is not actually a criminal until after the crime is committed.

WTF?

[richink]

Here's my simple math on drinking and driving. Number of beverages consumed divided by the number of hours it took you to do so. If the number is equal to or exceeds 1, DON'T EFFING DRIVE!!!! Have a tall glass of water or a cup of coffee and chit chat for another 15 minutes before you hit the road.

The law is black and white in this case, blow over the limit and it's a criminal offence. Even if the other driver was at fault for causing the accident, Neil cast the first stone by getting behind the wheel sh!tfaced. Had Neil not been drunk, he could have braked sooner, hit his horn and performed a swerving maneuver. Hell he could have jumped the curb and slid on to the guy's front lawn if he WASN'T DRUNK. He's unlikely to get the 10 years because of lawyering, clean criminal history and the 'ole "I thought I was ok". I don't care if you're a moose who just chowed down the entire buffet and you "feel like you're within your limit", you're still drunk on a few drinks over a couple of hours.

Jordan, you're partially correct. The penalties in Canada for driving drunk are stiff yes, but no one gets prosecuted to the full extent of the law and the majority get a proverbial slap on the wrist. I don't purport to have the answer, but part of it is a lack of deterent in the form of punishment. People seem to be laisez-faire about losing their license for a year, a fine and high insurance premiums.

[Jaeger]

Sometimes, someone who commits a crime is not actually a criminal until after the crime is committed.

WTF?

+1

Jaeger

[aaronk]

All too often it's the innocent ones that get hurt in the situations where there is an accident involving alcohol. It is appalling to think that someone loses a family member or friend due to a willful decision by someone else to drive intoxicated. As another said - there are simple alternatives, take a cab or stay over night or specify a DD.

[richink]

All too often it's the innocent ones that get hurt in the situations where there is an accident involving alcohol. It is appalling to think that someone loses a family member or friend due to a willful decision by someone else to drive intoxicated. As another said - there are simple alternatives, take a cab or stay over night or specify a DD.

Correct - about 2 years ago a 17 year old kid thought he was ok to drive after half a case of beer and he wound up killing a local restaurant owner in my community. She was innocent, but so was her husband and the entire family that has fallen apart over the incident. The kid got 3 years and a 10 year driving suspension, the latter is likely to be appealed at some point - all for killing someone.

I've got a laundry list of such incidents right off the top of my head, but they all ring the same bell at the end of the day. Plain and simple - the consequences for drinking and driving are a joke.

[5 Wheel Drive]

There's no excuse.  As said already, there's lots of alternative ways to get home.

At least it wasn't 'Peter' this time...   

[AP]

Here's my simple math on drinking and driving. Number of beverages consumed divided by the number of hours it took you to do so. If the number is equal to or exceeds 1, DON'T EFFING DRIVE!!!! Have a tall glass of water or a cup of coffee and chit chat for another 15 minutes before you hit the road.

Something is wrong with that formula as it would appear to support the following conclusions:

Don't drive if you had but one 1 drink within 1 hour of heading out the door. 

Drive if you have 5 drinks over 5 hours provided you wait 15 minutes and/or have a coffee.

 

[Jaeger]

Here's my simple math on drinking and driving. Number of beverages consumed divided by the number of hours it took you to do so. If the number is equal to or exceeds 1, DON'T EFFING DRIVE!!!! Have a tall glass of water or a cup of coffee and chit chat for another 15 minutes before you hit the road.

Something is wrong with that formula as it would appear to support the following conclusions:

Don't drive if you had but one 1 drink within 1 hour of heading out the door. 

Drive if you have 5 drinks over 5 hours provided you wait 15 minutes and/or have a coffee.

 

Agreed - that is a curious calculus.  I have a truly simple version.  Drink OR drive.  Pick ONE.

Jaeger

[richink]

Here's my simple math on drinking and driving. Number of beverages consumed divided by the number of hours it took you to do so. If the number is equal to or exceeds 1, DON'T EFFING DRIVE!!!! Have a tall glass of water or a cup of coffee and chit chat for another 15 minutes before you hit the road.

Something is wrong with that formula as it would appear to support the following conclusions:

Don't drive if you had but one 1 drink within 1 hour of heading out the door. 

Drive if you have 5 drinks over 5 hours provided you wait 15 minutes and/or have a coffee.

 

Agreed - that is a curious calculus.  I have a truly simple version.  Drink OR drive.  Pick ONE.

Jaeger

The calculation if used correctly keeps you below a drink per hour. I don't condone drinking and driving of any kind, but we all will admit to having a pint or a glass of wine over supper. That's what I am getting at.

[Fobroader]

A pint or glass of wine with a good dinner is perfectly fine for your average adult male, that is if you consume some non alchoholic beverages to get it out of your system. Like Ive said before, Ive lost 2 freinds to drunk driving and it sucks, having to bury guys in their 20's is devastating on a family. These people are criminals, this isnt speeding or pulling a patented Alberta rolling stop on a deserted STOP sign somewhere, this is actualy attempted murder in my mind. If youve just put away enough alchohol to drop a male rhino, then you are a criminal for getting behind that wheel.

[AP]

The calculation if used correctly keeps you below a drink per hour. I don't condone drinking and driving of any kind, but we all will admit to having a pint or a glass of wine over supper. That's what I am getting at.

I am not a pharmacologist but I suspect the drink per hour formula breaks down as the number of hours / drinks increases.

1 drink within 1 hour is obviously within a tolerable limit (though Jaeger's drink OR drive philosophy is the ideal). 

But are you really no worse off after consuming 10 drinks over 10 hours than 1 drink over 1 hour? 

[aaronk]

I think the 1 drink/hour formula is false. It depends on a persons' body type, medications and/or prescriptions, what they've had to eat that day, or just tolerance level. There are way to many variables to take a guess at what is safe. If we are talking about the potential of life or death, it's not a gamble you want to take chances on.

Occasionally we will go out to a pub for dinner, if that's the case I have a 1-pint rule. I'm also eating dinner, I will likely be there for over an hour, and I'm 6'2 200 lbs. Even if I were to stay there for 3 hours, I would make that 1 pint last, or take a cab. It's not worth it.

[dbw]

While Neil should be held responsible totally for his choice to drink and drive what about the other driver.....sounds like careless driving. Just because one driver is drinking the other driver should not be absolved of their actions.

[nlm]

"His case came to court seven months later and he really did not have a defence. He decided to plead guilty and accept the consequences. Since it was a first offence he paid a $1,000 fine and lost his right to drive for a year. But since he also injured two children in the incident he faced a maximum penalty of 10 years in jail. "

Correct about not much of a defence. I wonder how differently it would've played out to pleading guilty to D&D but not guilty to the accident. He should accept the consequences of that decision, but to have a compounded penalty for a presumably not-at-fault incident does not seem fair.

An extreme situation is Neil was D&D and got rear ended and the other driver's passengers were injured. Neil also gets possibly another 10 years even though he was not at fault for the accident because he blew over the limit? Sure he should be penalized for getting caught D&D but his actions did not cause the accident so why should he be responsible for those injuries?

[btlennon]

I have to love the play on words - "Drinking and driving". If I had one beer in the mid-afternoon at a friends BBQ and drove home at 8pm - Was I "drinking and driving"? What if I had 6 beers during a party at my house that lasted until 1 AM. If then I drove to work at 7 am - was I "drinking and driving"?
  The charges are driving with over 80 mg of alcohol in the blood or driving while impaired. The charge is NOT "Drinking and Driving". The limits were set to give some leeway into how we as humans process alcohol in our bodies and its affects on our physical capapbilites to react in a driving context. I typically have 1 or 2 beers (usually 1) with friends over a period of 3 -5 hours - If some of you had your way, I'd be guilty of "Drinking and Driving". We can all be criminals at the stroke of a pen. Our lawyer writer makes money from that!

[articsteve]

When I was 17 I survived a full on broadside by a car that had driven right thru a stop sign at a fair clip.  Toronto fire department had to cut me out of the vehicle.  I was totally faced and taken to Sunnybrook in a Cadillac ambulance (remember those; by night an ambulance and by day a hearse ).

Emerg Dr. told me that other than a concussion and a gash in my forehead I was OK probably because I had been drunk.  Said cops were looking to speak with me so they hid me in the X ray room on a table with a plate over my head.  Cops found me anyways and asked me if I'd been drinking.  I said I had a "couple" and they said OK and left.  That was the end of it.

How times have changed.
 

[Jaeger]

  The charge is NOT "Drinking and Driving".

Who said it was?  That's merely the colloquial expression for the broad class of impaired driving offences.  Add to the list that you don't have to be impaired by alcohol - being impaired by a drug lands you in the same boat.  And you don't have to be driving, either.  Having care or control of a motor vehicle while impaired is also a criminal offence.

I typically have 1 or 2 beers (usually 1) with friends over a period of 3 -5 hours - If some of you had your way, I'd be guilty of "Drinking and Driving". We can all be criminals at the stroke of a pen. Our lawyer writer makes money from that!

If by "stroke of a pen" you mean constitutionally sound and widely publicized criminal statute, then yeah "at the stroke of a pen" we can all be criminals.  That same statute makes murder illegal, so if I intentionally kill someone without legal justification "by the stroke of a pen" I am a criminal.  Alcohol consumption and driving are both voluntary choices, as is the choice to combine them.  Choices have consequences.  Jails are full of people who don't understand that.

Jaeger

[articsteve]

a couple of shots, and one more for the road

Although I know this story is just that, a STORY  , but anyone who does shots in a "restaurant" with his meal is a hard core alkie and should not even have a license because you'd be an ALCOHOLIC.

Ok I re-read the story and this could be a "party" at some's home and the liquour is free.  My bad.  Any time the booze is FREE, then extra ordinary precautions need to be in place by the hosts. 

Max I have now is 2 pints or 2 x 355 ml beers with or without food which in itself is 20 BUCKS! (tax and tip in) which is crazy considering in my early 20s you'd get 4 x 7 ouncers of draft for $1.00 plus 25 cent tip.