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Author Topic: Gas Mileage Lawsuits  (Read 916 times)

Offline richink

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Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« on: January 04, 2012, 02:22:25 pm »
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/2361/woman-takes-unique-road-to-sue-honda

I can't believe that people still complain about this, let alone crack open a lawsuit over it.

Manufacturers don't make the EPA or Transport Canada fuel economy rules, neither do they test the vehicles. They publish the results per the government testing; and although I agree the way they test is ridiculous, it is what it is. I also believe they influence governing bodies to test in a manner which is favourable to inordinately low consumption vs. real world numbers.

As Don King said, only in America (me thinks in Canada too on this one).
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Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 11:03:04 pm »
There's a couple mentions (in the article and on her website) of problems with the hybrid's batteries. If this is a defect (not just batteries wearing out over time), then she might have a leg to stand on. If not... she should be SOL. The fault is with the testing protocol, not Honda.

And although Honda apparently needs to appoint a "non-lawyer" to represent them in court, I see nothing saying this person will not be extensively coached by a team of lawyers, nor nothing barring them from calling engineers and other expert witnesses during the trial...

I'll be interested to see how it all turns out.
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Offline mmret

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 11:18:38 pm »
This is sad. Could set an awful precedent.
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Offline aquadorhj

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 11:43:01 pm »
Honda will probably settle, just to make this go away.

they shouldn't have made "hybrid" that gets worse gas mileage than their regular civic/fit though...  if it was gonna get worse mileage, should have made it faster, at least.

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Offline safristi

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2012, 09:51:09 am »
about time IMHO........just another SCAM....like those paid companies that  post "Reliability" figures based on NOTHING...............


 Take 100 cars bought off the dealerships randomly...give them to a cross section of folks and let them drive 'em for 10,000Km's then average the MILEAGE and PUT THAT ON THE STICKER....sheesh  NOT too DIFFICULT......but oh NO lets print B/s stickers and let the public get pissed off afterwards....great scheme   well it is the EPA aka GOVERNMENT at it's WORST....... :light: :banghead: :bang: :eye:
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Offline Mike-NB

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 12:49:22 pm »
I've read that Hyundai and GM are facing similar issues (though maybe not legal action yet...)  Hyundai for the Elantra and GM for the Equinox (I think). 

These complaints are silly and seem to me another example of people not wanting to take responsibilty for their own actions.  If you believe that you will regularly get the mileage that Transport Canada got in testing you're delusional.  And I'm not alleging fraud on anyone's part.  Most of us, I'm certain, use those figures for relative comparions.  We can get a sense that within a class of vehicles, car X is likely to get better fuel economy than car Y. 

Real-world fuel economy relies so much on individual factors that it is really impossible to do anything more than use the numbers as a benchmark. 
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Offline johngenx

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 12:57:50 pm »
Do people drive in a full/off manner with the gas pedal?  We don't have much trouble hitting the TC ratings, though with highway driving, 100km/h or lower is pretty much the only way to match/beat the TC ratings.
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Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 04:59:44 pm »
Quote from: johngenx on January 14, 2012, 12:57:50 pm
Do people drive in a full/off manner with the gas pedal?  We don't have much trouble hitting the TC ratings, though with highway driving, 100km/h or lower is pretty much the only way to match/beat the TC ratings.

The last time I drove Kingston - Toronto I did a little test. Normally I'll travel ~130kph and get about 6-7L/100km. This time, I drove 110km/h and got 5.2L/100km. IIRC, the car is rated for 5.0 highway, so in summer I fully expect to be able to hit that number.

I'm not sure off hand at what speed TC does its highway test at, but I was really surprised that 20km/h could make a 2L/100km difference.

OTOH, here to Toronto is under 300km, so even at $1.25/L I'm saving less than $7.50. Still, that's enough to buy lunch... :)
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Offline safristi

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 05:31:32 pm »
 ::) Yummy... :lick:....
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Offline johngenx

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 06:11:10 pm »
It's not the money for us.  My wife loved the Lexus GX, but we sat down and talked about the high fuel consumption.  We can afford to feed it, but really, do we want to be consuming that amount of non-renewable resources?  It uses 1.7x more fuel in city driving than the Forester and 2.25x as much as the Corolla.  It seems like a ridiculous amount to us.
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Offline Cord

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 08:08:40 pm »
Quote
I'm not sure off hand at what speed TC does its highway test at, but I was really surprised that 20km/h could make a 2L/100km difference.

I believe the highway test is done at an average speed of 77 km/h.
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Offline tpl

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 07:23:16 am »
Quote from: Cord on January 14, 2012, 08:08:40 pm
Quote
I'm not sure off hand at what speed TC does its highway test at, but I was really surprised that 20km/h could make a 2L/100km difference.

I believe the highway test is done at an average speed of 77 km/h.
Some years back a TC guy told me that the highest speed was 80 km/h.   I asked why so low and he said that they counted the great mass of non-expressway highways as being the norm.    Weird.   
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Offline safristi

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2012, 08:26:22 am »
 ::)  maybe they should rename the CAFE test......"RIP_OFFS BELIEVE IT OR NOT".... :P.................
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Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2012, 09:24:39 am »
Quote from: Cord on January 14, 2012, 08:08:40 pm
I believe the highway test is done at an average speed of 77 km/h.

No wonder so many people don't get the rated fuel mileage...

I just checked, and the 09 Fit is rated for 5.7L/100km highway. So I'm pretty pleased with 5.2 in the winter... :)

(OTOH, it's rated for 7.2 city, and I'm usually closer to 8... but I think that's my driving. :D)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 09:42:21 am by The Mighty Duck »
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Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2012, 06:46:23 pm »
Just popped up on my Twitter feed that the woman won the suit. No details yet, but an interesting development nonetheless...

Quote
California woman who sued Honda in small claims court over low mileage on hybrid car has won suit - AP
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2012, 06:50:24 pm »
Quote from: The Mighty Duck on February 01, 2012, 06:46:23 pm
Just popped up on my Twitter feed that the woman won the suit. No details yet, but an interesting development nonetheless...

Quote
California woman who sued Honda in small claims court over low mileage on hybrid car has won suit - AP

LOS ANGELES — The Southern California owner of a Honda hybrid car has won her unusual small-claims court lawsuit against the auto giant over the vehicle’s failure to deliver the promised mileage.

A Los Angeles Superior Court commissioner has awarded Heather Peters $9,867.

Peters opted out of a class-action lawsuit in order to attempt to claim a higher payment for the failure of her Civic to deliver the 50 miles per gallon that was promised when she bought it.

She also hopes to inspire a flood of such lawsuits by other Honda owners. A proposed settlement by Honda would give aggrieved owners $100 to $200 each and a $1,000 credit on purchase of a new car.

In small claims court, the top damage award is $10,000.
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Offline Juke1

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2012, 07:01:00 pm »
The onboard f/e computer of an hybrid does poorly with my driving style ;)  Reason #1 I would never get one, undriveable, I would get the cheapest Hyundai Accent and be way ahead of the game in the long run.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2012, 11:12:10 pm »
Quote from: Juke1 on February 01, 2012, 07:01:00 pm
The onboard f/e computer of an hybrid does poorly with my driving style ;)  Reason #1 I would never get one, undriveable, I would get the cheapest Hyundai Accent and be way ahead of the game in the long run.

Undriveable?  WTF are you talking about?  Or dare I ask?
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Offline DKaz

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2012, 02:41:07 pm »
Where do you stop? I have an Ultragauge and generally with my Mazda 5...

To drive 70km/h, I need ~5.8L/100km (give or take) to maintain speed.
80km/h, 6.2L/100km.
90km/h, 6.7L/100km
100km/h, 7.3L/100km
110km/h, 8.1L/100km
120km/h, 9.0L/100km.
I think to do 140km/h would take 10.5L/100km.

I could see 9.0L/100km being the real world gas mileage, then I can be the super hypermiler that gets 6.7L/100km.  ;D But then what about guys who like to do 140km/h?

Even say for a short 5km trip, I can manage to nudge down gas consumption to 10L/100km, while my wife is up in the 11.5L/100km range. In three weeks I spent in Banff, I used 19.5L/100km... 11L of gas for 57km. Do I sue Mazda for grossly underestimate city mileage at 10.6L/100km?
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Offline SaskSpecV

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Re: Gas Mileage Lawsuits
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2012, 02:55:04 pm »
That is awesome data DKaz.  That chart should be mandatory reading in all driver's ed courses...
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