Topic: Day-by-Day Review: 2012 Volkswagen Golf TDI; Day 1

[dirtyjeffer]

the VW dealer here (where my parents bought their 09 Jetta TDi Wagon a couple of years ago) charges $100 for an oil change...it is the proper synthetic and only needs to be done every 20,000kms (they do it every fall)...so, while the oil change isn't "cheap", the fact it only needs to be done once a year is more convenient and actually less expensive that getting 3-4 oil changes per year in a "regular vehicle".

[Spec5]

Some information on maintenance cost would be useful during this article. What does a typical oil change cost at the dealer, at what interval, and what are the big ticket maintenance intervals and costs - example timing belt at 100,000 Kms. It all adds up to TCO - Total Cost of Ownership. If someone buys and Elantra for $10,000 less than a Golf, where is that break even in terms of fuel savings and maintenance costs?

From what I can recall of other articles dealing with this type of question - if the price is more than $5,000 difference it'll take more than 5 years to break even. Can't remember if that was in a hybrid related article or diesel but its a ballpark at least. I THINK that was based on 24k kms/year but don't quote me on that.

As a side note - I know many of us here have discussed friends/relatives who have owned finniky Golfs/Jettas. I was on my way to work just this morning following about a 7-10 year old Golf. At every light when he would take his foot off the brake the passenger side backup light would come on for about 30 seconds - then flicker on and off a couple of times (different each time) and finally go out. My dad had an '83 Buick Park Avenue Electra and let me tell you I have NO desire to even look at a vehicle that has historically had such a bad reputation for electronic gremlins.

[nsmyhte]

I've read that the dual-clutch tranny doesn't really suit the diesel engine's slower power delivery compared to that of a gas engine and that a normal automatic would suit it better.

Any insight on that would be interesting.

[dirtyjeffer]

slower power delivery??...that diesel dumps out battleship loads of torque as soon as you step on the "gas"...drive one, they are impressive.

[tpl]

I've read that the dual-clutch tranny doesn't really suit the diesel engine's slower power delivery compared to that of a gas engine and that a normal automatic would suit it better.

Any insight on that would be interesting.

Why would anyone come to that conclusion and even more for that weird reason.  The DSG is a manual transmission with the actual gearchanges  done automatically...so they are generally far smoother than even I could manage manually.  The strategy of gear changing is controlled by software just as in a modern slushbox automatic and this may need to be a bit different for  the different characteristics of a diesel.  Probably it would be quite similar to a GTI, that it would take advantage of the low rpm torque and change up early compared to a normally aspirated engine.  My GTI changes up at far lower rpm that I would in normal mode and at far higher rpm in sport mode. The TDI, if it had a "sport mode"  would certainly need a different set of software in that mode.

Somewhere in the drive train of a TDI there must be a different ratio to get an acceptable ( to Germans) top speed from the car. 

[JohnnyMac]

I've never bought a VW product or any German product so I can't speak from personal experience.  I'm only 30 years old so I can't go through years of car ownership and experience with these products.  But I can tell you that I think the VW TDI's are top notch in my book.  I understand that people do all these calculations about saving $$ and what not but doesn't a car usually go beyond the dollar and cents aspect and into a more pleasurable aspect of our lives.  For me if you live in a city and drive less than 20,000 kms a year diesel probably isn't in your future, I'd probably suggest a cheap runabout like the honda fit or maybe go for one of those new plug in hybrid jobs if you have the extra cash.

If you live outside a city and drive more miles I think the TDI makes good sense.  First and foremost is the fact that it's truly a pleasure to drive and if you're spending more time in the car than most people shouldn't you be enjoying yourself and being comfortable.  Next what people usually forget is that a VW TDI actually has achievable mileage where as a lot of other products is pretty much impossible to acheive the advertised rating.  I would rather pay VW more for their diesel technology and reduce how much I give to those oil companies that I despise.  And lastly a diesel vehicle generally gets more in resale value.  

I'm very much so interested in the upcoming Mazda diesels that they promise to be bring to our shores next year.  Those might offer less reliability problems, reduced maintenance cost, and probably undercut the VW's in price to boot.  Oh and Mazda has been known to offer some decent sales incentives and interest rates.

[curly]

Despite my high praise of Mazda's CX-7 back in the fall, we decided not to buy one to replace our Mazda 6 sport wagon. The new permanent addition to the Louka garage is a 2012 VW Golf Wagon TDI Highline 6MT. Got it three weeks ago; full report coming soon ...

Haney Louka

[5 Wheel Drive]

Despite my high praise of Mazda's CX-7 back in the fall, we decided not to buy one to replace our Mazda 6 sport wagon. The new permanent addition to the Louka garage is a 2012 VW Golf Wagon TDI Highline 6MT. Got it three weeks ago; full report coming soon ...

Haney Louka

Very nice!  Crank up that post count because...

 

[Mike]

Despite my high praise of Mazda's CX-7 back in the fall, we decided not to buy one to replace our Mazda 6 sport wagon. The new permanent addition to the Louka garage is a 2012 VW Golf Wagon TDI Highline 6MT. Got it three weeks ago; full report coming soon ...

Haney Louka

Very nice!  Crank up that post count because...

 

He can just write a review and post all the pics he wants in the gallery 

[wing]

The TDI, if it had a "sport mode"  would certainly need a different set of software in that mode.

It does have a sport mode

[tpl]

The TDI, if it had a "sport mode"  would certainly need a different set of software in that mode.

It does have a sport mode

How fast is it going at 4500 rpm in 6th  in "drive"   and, when it is in sport mode does it ever change up to 5th or 6th ( the GTI Mk V does not)

[wing]

Lol I don't think I have enough road that would be max speed LOL

[Ontariodriver]

Funny how we slag off Toyota and Honda for producing cars similar to the last generation Ummm. This VW golf looks dated from inside to outside. Does VW even know how to make modern dash that looks so dated. it's a sea of grey...

[nsmyhte]

slower power delivery??...that diesel dumps out battleship loads of torque as soon as you step on the "gas"...drive one, they are impressive.

Yes, I have driven a few modern diesels and yes, a diesel's power delivery is slower.

[nsmyhte]

I've read that the dual-clutch tranny doesn't really suit the diesel engine's slower power delivery compared to that of a gas engine and that a normal automatic would suit it better.

Any insight on that would be interesting.

Why would anyone come to that conclusion and even more for that weird reason.  The DSG is a manual transmission with the actual gearchanges  done automatically...so they are generally far smoother than even I could manage manually.  The strategy of gear changing is controlled by software just as in a modern slushbox automatic and this may need to be a bit different for  the different characteristics of a diesel.  Probably it would be quite similar to a GTI, that it would take advantage of the low rpm torque and change up early compared to a normally aspirated engine.  My GTI changes up at far lower rpm that I would in normal mode and at far higher rpm in sport mode. The TDI, if it had a "sport mode"  would certainly need a different set of software in that mode.

Somewhere in the drive train of a TDI there must be a different ratio to get an acceptable ( to Germans) top speed from the car. 

Well, this is what Car and Driver said about the illsuited drivetrain:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-volkswagen-passat-tdi-se-road-test-review

I'm just looking for some more insight, another opinion. To see if their complaint is a valid one or not.

[Solstice2006]

Despite my high praise of Mazda's CX-7 back in the fall, we decided not to buy one to replace our Mazda 6 sport wagon. The new permanent addition to the Louka garage is a 2012 VW Golf Wagon TDI Highline 6MT. Got it three weeks ago; full report coming soon ...

Congrats, it's always exciting getting a new vehicle.  I always watch your reviews, I remember reading your review on winter tires, as we have the same car, (I have the 2008, V6, but sadly an automatic)!  Anyway, the car only has 110k on it, and I have been watching the Ford Flex, Mazda CX-9, Subaru Outback, and the VW Golf wagon TDI to replace it, when the times come.  Fuel efficiency isn't the highest concern, but it's up there, but the depreciation on the Ford Flex is very appealing, and the engine and two-interior of the CX-9 is much better than the CX-7.   I look forward to your post, and in time, a couple of years I will ask about maintenance on a TDI, as I have no idea!

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The differences in fuel economy are so small now, that I'm not feeling the attraction I used to for diesel. And the Prius is in a different league.

[airbalancer]

in the prius we are at 4.8 l/100 over the last 2000 km

[rrocket]

The differences in fuel economy are so small now, that I'm not feeling the attraction I used to for diesel. And the Prius is in a different league.

Indeed. The old "dirty" diesels (early 2000s I think) got better MPG

[tpl]

I've read that the dual-clutch tranny doesn't really suit the diesel engine's slower power delivery compared to that of a gas engine and that a normal automatic would suit it better.

Any insight on that would be interesting.

Why would anyone come to that conclusion and even more for that weird reason.  The DSG is a manual transmission with the actual gearchanges  done automatically...so they are generally far smoother than even I could manage manually.  The strategy of gear changing is controlled by software just as in a modern slushbox automatic and this may need to be a bit different for  the different characteristics of a diesel.  Probably it would be quite similar to a GTI, that it would take advantage of the low rpm torque and change up early compared to a normally aspirated engine.  My GTI changes up at far lower rpm that I would in normal mode and at far higher rpm in sport mode. The TDI, if it had a "sport mode"  would certainly need a different set of software in that mode.

Somewhere in the drive train of a TDI there must be a different ratio to get an acceptable ( to Germans) top speed from the car. 

Well, this is what Car and Driver said about the illsuited drivetrain:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-volkswagen-passat-tdi-se-road-test-review

I'm just looking for some more insight, another opinion. To see if their complaint is a valid one or not.

CD  "The engine’s preferred combination of high torque and low rpm results in bumpy shifts. "

Should be a software fix but I guess it might require mechanical changes to the two clutches as well  for longevity. I have not driven a TDI DSG but I have been shuttled around in one a few times and I did not notice any bumpy shifts but that was a Golf wagon TDI not a Passat.