Topic: Test Drive: 2012 Nissan Leaf SL

[airbalancer]

 http://abarrelfull.wikidot.com/refineries-that-are-closed-down

supply and demand , keeping supply low , demand high, =higher price

[EV Dan]

Oh, and about that word “hydro.” With 21 per cent of Ontario’s electric power coming from coal-fired plants and eight per cent from natural gas, I’m not exactly off the hook environmentally either.

Somewhere over the rainbow, indeed.

I've come across some thoroughly done calculations that concluded that to put a gallon of fuel in the gas tank it takes MORE electricity to produce that fuel than an electric car would use to go a gallon-worth distance. In other words, an ICE car uses MORE hydro than an equivalent EV before you even start the engine, from which point on it pollutes the air and contributes to Climate Change. I wish I saved the link, but take my word, the calculations seemed credible. 

[rrocket]

Oh, and about that word “hydro.” With 21 per cent of Ontario’s electric power coming from coal-fired plants and eight per cent from natural gas, I’m not exactly off the hook environmentally either.

Somewhere over the rainbow, indeed.

I've come across some thoroughly done calculations that concluded that to put a gallon of fuel in the gas tank it takes MORE electricity to produce that fuel than an electric car would use to go a gallon-worth distance. In other words, an ICE car uses MORE hydro than an equivalent EV before you even start the engine, from which point on it pollutes the air and contributes to Climate Change. I wish I saved the link, but take my word, the calculations seemed credible. 

I had seen that before too.  Exploration, drilling, transportation, refining, personnel etc all use plenty of hydro and addition fossil fuel to make fuel.  Even my brother who's a petroleum geologist says it take tons of resources to get the fuel to your gas station. 

[dirtyjeffer]

I've come across some thoroughly done calculations that concluded that to put a gallon of fuel in the gas tank it takes MORE electricity to produce that fuel than an electric car would use to go a gallon-worth distance. In other words, an ICE car uses MORE hydro than an equivalent EV before you even start the engine, from which point on it pollutes the air and contributes to Climate Change. I wish I saved the link, but take my word, the calculations seemed credible. 

hmmm...i never thought about that part of it...good point.

[JohnM]

If you want to do net energy calculations this is the best source I've found.

http://www.withouthotair.com/

You can download the book "Sustainable Energy - without the hot air" by physicist David MacKay or buy the hardcover copy.

He breaks virtually every human activity you can think of that creates or uses energy into kWatt hours.

Also looks at the national options possible for renewables meeting consumption demand for Britain.  Great overview.

Fabulous reference.

Cheers,
John M.

[robsaw]

Makes sense. I've dug around a little more about this, several sources has the 120v charger sipping 6Kwh for 18 hours to charge this beastie up to give 140 km range give or take.

Off peak is 6.2 cents per Kwh in Ontario, so 6*6.2*18 = 6.70 plus HST per charge, call it give or take 7 bucks.

Your average econobox these days will do about 7L/100km, so let's say about 10 litres to 140 km, or about 12 bucks based on todays roughly $1.20 per litre in SW Ontario; so about $5 more to go the same distance.

Based on $5 per 140km energy/drive cost and a roughly $10k difference in purchase price, you'd have to drive a Leaf just over 280,000 km to derrive any financial benefit, probably marginally lower
considering an electric motor has lesser maintenance requirements, so call it about 250,000 km in annoyingly short 140 km bursts before the 18 hour charge on 120v. The 220v charger will cut down the charging time and will consume relatively less Kwh, but the math will be similar over the long haul.

The environmental impact of generating electricity vs. refining crude to gasoline and then burning it is arguably similar. Bottom line remains, I still don't see any benefit be it cost, performance or environmental.

The 120V charging is based upon a 20A circuit, which can continuously deliver only about 2 kW, which according to the Nissan's Leaf FAQ page (US) will take about 20 hours to charge from full discharge to full charge. The current will decrease over time as the battery charges, according to Nissan it would average about 10A or 1.2 kW * 20h = 24 kWh, which at 0.10c/kWh that Nissan uses as an average = $2.40.

The 240V charging is based upon a 40A circuit.
 

[macedonian]

it's all ok, but don't forget we live in Canada.
In summer time is alright, but in winter?What's the real distance fully loaded Leaf can go?Did anybody tested that?And I'm talking -25 to - 30 C .
I still take my diesel, thank you very much, that way I'm not limited by the distance I can go.What if I have to go further that I planed?Somethings comes out and you have to do more chores.