Author Topic: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle  (Read 732 times)

Offline rrocket

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Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« on: December 21, 2011, 07:12:01 pm »
Analyst: 'This might be the most government-supported car since the Trabant'   :rofl:

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16192

Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

Hohman looked at total state and federal assistance offered for the development and production of the Chevy Volt, General Motors’ plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. His analysis included 18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. The amount of government assistance does not include the fact that General Motors is currently 26 percent owned by the federal government.

The Volt subsidies flow through multiple companies involved in production. The analysis includes adding up the amount of government subsidies via tax credits and direct funding for not only General Motors, but other companies supplying parts for the vehicle. For example, the Department of Energy awarded a $105.9 million grant to the GM Brownstown plant that assembles the batteries. The company was also awarded approximately $106 million for its Hamtramck assembly plant in state credits to retain jobs. The company that supplies the Volt’s batteries, Compact Power, was awarded up to $100 million in refundable battery credits (combination tax breaks and cash subsidies). These are among many of the subsidies and tax credits for the vehicle.

It’s unlikely that all the companies involved in Volt production will ever receive all the $3 billion in incentives, Hohman said, because many of them are linked to meeting various employment and other milestones. But the analysis looks at the total value that has been offered to the Volt in different aspects of production – from the assembly line to the dealerships to the battery manufacturers. Some tax credits and subsidies are offered for periods up to 20 years, though most have a much shorter time frame.

GM has estimated they’ve sold 6,000 Volts so far. That would mean each of the 6,000 Volts sold would be subsidized between $50,000 and $250,000, depending on how many government subsidy milestones are realized.

If those manufacturers awarded incentives to produce batteries the Volt may use are included in the analysis, the potential government subsidy per Volt increases to $256,824. For example, A123 Systems has received extensive state and federal support, and bid to be a supplier to the Volt, but the deal instead went to Compact Power. The $256,824 figure includes adding up the subsidies to both companies.

The $3 billion total subsidy figure includes $690.4 million offered by the state of Michigan and $2.3 billion in federal money. That’s enough to purchase 75,222 Volts with a sticker price of $39,828.

Additional state and local support provided to Volt suppliers was not included in the analysis, Hohman said, and could increase the level of government aid. For instance, the Volt is being assembled at the Poletown plant in Detroit/Hamtramck, which was built on land acquired by General Motors through eminent domain.

“It just goes to show  there are certain folks that will spend anything to get their vision of what people should do,” said State Representative Tom McMillin, R-Rochester Hills. “It’s a glaring example of the failure of central planning trying to force citizens to purchase something they may not want. … They should let the free market make those decisions.”

“This might be the most government-supported car since the Trabant,” said Hohman, referring to the car produced by the former Communist state of East Germany.

According to GM CEO Dan Akerson, the average Volt owner makes $170,000 per year.
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Offline Mike

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Re:
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 08:15:25 pm »
Wow, haven't read so much propaganda in a long time.  Reminds me a lot of the unintended Toyota acceleration articles.  I assume the writer is right wing?  There seems to be a witch hunt on in the USA right now on all hybrids by the right wing, volt especially (probably since they love to tie it to Obama).

Want to really read some one sided Volt hatred, google 'Matt Drudge'
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Offline rrocket

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Re:
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 08:38:25 pm »
Wow, haven't read so much propaganda in a long time.  Reminds me a lot of the unintended Toyota acceleration articles.  I assume the writer is right wing?  There seems to be a witch hunt on in the USA right now on all hybrids by the right wing, volt especially (probably since they love to tie it to Obama).

Want to really read some one sided Volt hatred, google 'Matt Drudge'

Is it still propaganda if the numbers add up and GM doesn't show any numbers to prove otherwise?

Offline rrocket

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 11:28:18 pm »
Here's some propaganda...courtesy of the spin machine...Fox News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KJhdaQO_CM

Offline Mike

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 07:12:59 am »
Here's some propaganda...courtesy of the spin machine...Fox News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KJhdaQO_CM

The Volt has officially become the face of Barrack Obama.  Kinda of strange how this all plays out.  I really hate when politics gets so involved in the auto industry, but you give a company a huge bailout....what do you expect?  I wonder if the Republicans win if they will make GM kill the Volt as their first act of government  ;D

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 10:10:12 am »
Ford got subsidies for their hybrids and electrics, Nissan too. The Japanese government has a long list of incentives and subsidies available to their auto industry.

This isn't any different other than a certain portion of right wing "free marketeers" want GM to fail. You know:"Government intervention is bad." Etc

An analyst looked at all the subsidies sunk into the Toyota truck plant in Texas. The total package of direct subsidies, grants, tax rebates and accelerated depreciation paid for half the cost of the plant. In it's first few years the plant was running one shift because of weak demand for the Tundra. It you divide it out, it ended up being somewhere around $20k per truck. A truck that certainly wasn't on the cutting edge of technology.
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Offline Juke1

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 10:31:55 am »
Here's some propaganda...courtesy of the spin machine...Fox News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KJhdaQO_CM

The Volt has officially become the face of Barrack Obama.  Kinda of strange how this all plays out.  I really hate when politics gets so involved in the auto industry, but you give a company a huge bailout....what do you expect?  I wonder if the Republicans win if they will make GM kill the Volt as their first act of government  ;D

Should the republicans have been in power then, would they have killed GM?  Highly doubtful.
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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 10:40:43 am »
Here's some propaganda...courtesy of the spin machine...Fox News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KJhdaQO_CM

The Volt has officially become the face of Barrack Obama.  Kinda of strange how this all plays out.  I really hate when politics gets so involved in the auto industry, but you give a company a huge bailout....what do you expect?  I wonder if the Republicans win if they will make GM kill the Volt as their first act of government  ;D

Should the republicans have been in power then, would they have killed GM?  Highly doubtful.

Oh I agree, but politics is a strange game.  If something was accomplished by 'the other guy' (even if you agree with it or it is working) be sure to sway public opinion that is was the worst idea in the entire history of human kind.

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 12:04:31 pm »
Here's some propaganda...courtesy of the spin machine...Fox News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KJhdaQO_CM

The Volt has officially become the face of Barrack Obama.  Kinda of strange how this all plays out.  I really hate when politics gets so involved in the auto industry, but you give a company a huge bailout....what do you expect?  I wonder if the Republicans win if they will make GM kill the Volt as their first act of government  ;D

Should the republicans have been in power then, would they have killed GM?  Highly doubtful.

Oh I agree, but politics is a strange game.  If something was accomplished by 'the other guy' (even if you agree with it or it is working) be sure to sway public opinion that is was the worst idea in the entire history of human kind.

Exactly, and let the bashing begin ;)

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 12:07:00 pm »
If I was looking for a car that offered good economy and was electric first, I think I would seriously be considering the Volt. It appeals to the cheap me - I know it isn't, but being able to run on battery and then having the gas engine to extend your range when needed makes sense.

The Leaf doesn't have that safety net. Nor does the Mitsu and I think it's a no brainer to take the Volt and never have to worry. Maybe when electrics can handle more than 200km on a single charge I will feel different, but based on what's out there today the Volt makes the most sense. I'm surprised more people are not warming up to it.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2011, 04:58:07 pm »
I'm surprised more people are not warming up to it.

I'm not.  It's a mediocre electric vehicle (worse than Leaf) and a poor hybrid (much worse than Prius).  And more expensive than both in the long run.  Pretty easy to see why people aren't warming up to it.  Good car...but sorta falls into the mushy middle.

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2011, 07:07:36 pm »
I don't get it.  It has a gasoline engine.  It has batteries and an electric motor.  It's not a hybrid?  I realize it only uses the electric motor to drive the wheels, and has features not found in other hybrids, but in operation, there seems to be no advantage over a Prius.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 07:21:17 pm »
I don't get it.  It has a gasoline engine.  It has batteries and an electric motor.  It's not a hybrid?  I realize it only uses the electric motor to drive the wheels, and has features not found in other hybrids, but in operation, there seems to be no advantage over a Prius.

It's a hybrid.  Period.

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2011, 08:23:15 pm »
I don't get it.  It has a gasoline engine.  It has batteries and an electric motor.  It's not a hybrid?  I realize it only uses the electric motor to drive the wheels, and has features not found in other hybrids, but in operation, there seems to be no advantage over a Prius.

It's a hybrid.  Period.

unless you don't drive more then 40Km a day

Offline rrocket

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2011, 08:48:09 pm »
I don't get it.  It has a gasoline engine.  It has batteries and an electric motor.  It's not a hybrid?  I realize it only uses the electric motor to drive the wheels, and has features not found in other hybrids, but in operation, there seems to be no advantage over a Prius.

It's a hybrid.  Period.

unless you don't drive more then 40Km a day

If that's the case...you want the Leaf then. 

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2011, 09:45:57 pm »
I'm surprised more people are not warming up to it.

I'm not.  It's a mediocre electric vehicle (worse than Leaf) and a poor hybrid (much worse than Prius).  And more expensive than both in the long run.  Pretty easy to see why people aren't warming up to it.  Good car...but sorta falls into the mushy middle.

It's got longer range than the Leaf, and it's a better electric car than the Prius. All depends on if you're a glass half full or glass half empty kind of guy.

Or have a GM axe to grind.

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2011, 10:00:08 pm »
I understand that letting GM fail was never a real option, but one might think what if instead of wasting taxpayer money on perpetual losers, a small, determined and innovative start-up would get a cash shot of up to 250 grand per car? The one that would make a dream car and sell it at the similar 80% off its real taxpayer cost. Tesla Model S with a 300 mile range for under 20k? That would make the US car industry the world leader in the field, light years ahead of everyone else. But whatareyougonnado, now we have a fugly inefficient hybrid.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2011, 10:01:14 pm »

I'm surprised more people are not warming up to it.

I'm not.  It's a mediocre electric vehicle (worse than Leaf) and a poor hybrid (much worse than Prius).  And more expensive than both in the long run.  Pretty easy to see why people aren't warming up to it.  Good car...but sorta falls into the mushy middle.

It's got longer range than the Leaf, and it's a better electric car than the Prius. All depends on if you're a glass half full or glass half empty kind of guy.

Or have a GM axe to grind.

I has less electric range than a Leaf and it has less gasoline range than a Prius.

The Volt is half empty.   ;D

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2011, 10:08:10 pm »
I understand that letting GM fail was never a real option, but one might think what if instead of wasting taxpayer money on perpetual losers, a small, determined and innovative start-up would get a cash shot of up to 250 grand per car? The one that would make a dream car and sell it at the similar 80% off its real taxpayer cost. Tesla Model S with a 300 mile range for under 20k? That would make the US car industry the world leader in the field, light years ahead of everyone else. But whatareyougonnado, now we have a fugly inefficient hybrid.

You could wish for a 600km range, seating for 7 and a 0-60 in 4 seconds for $10k. It's not terribly realistic.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 10:13:08 pm »

I'm surprised more people are not warming up to it.

I'm not.  It's a mediocre electric vehicle (worse than Leaf) and a poor hybrid (much worse than Prius).  And more expensive than both in the long run.  Pretty easy to see why people aren't warming up to it.  Good car...but sorta falls into the mushy middle.

It's got longer range than the Leaf, and it's a better electric car than the Prius. All depends on if you're a glass half full or glass half empty kind of guy.

Or have a GM axe to grind.

I has less electric range than a Leaf and it has less gasoline range than a Prius.

The Volt is half empty.   ;D

So I could commute all week on electric and drive to Saskatoon or Edmonton on the weekend in the Volt. This is a bad thing?
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