Topic: First Drive: 2012 Buick Verano

[Juke1]

Until recently Honda sold Civics and CSX 

[Jaeger]

Until recently Honda sold Civics and CSX 

Different situation.  Those were sold under different brands - and one wasn't a compact and the other a midsize (as wither Verano / Regal and Jetta / Passat).

I'm not sure it's necessarily a bad thing for separate segment entries to look closely alike - as long as they both look good.  To me, the Passat looks like a bar of soap, and the Jetta looks like that same bar after a week of use.  Regal looks good to me - better in person than in pictures.  I expect I'll like the Verano as well. 

Jaeger

[CanuckG35]

Until recently Honda sold Civics and CSX 

Different situation.  Those were sold under different brands - and one wasn't a compact and the other a midsize (as wither Verano / Regal and Jetta / Passat).

I'm not sure it's necessarily a bad thing for separate segment entries to look closely alike - as long as they both look good.  To me, the Passat looks like a bar of soap, and the Jetta looks like that same bar after a week of use.  Regal looks good to me - better in person than in pictures.  I expect I'll like the Verano as well. 

Jaeger

  

[airbalancer]

In 1985 ,a salesman told me that all cars will look a used bar of soap in the future

[5 Wheel Drive]

I checked out the Verano and Regal GS at the Montreal Auto show last week as well.  I got out of both of them very impressed.  I really like the interiors of both.  Very nice materials, they felt well put together.  The difference in interior space between the 2 was noticable, but not by much.  I'd love to see the 2.0 turbo from the Regal GS in the Verano.

[DKaz]

To me, the Passat looks like a bar of soap, and the Jetta looks like that same bar after a week of use. 

Bwahahahaha.

[Juke1]

Until recently Honda sold Civics and CSX 

Different situation.  Those were sold under different brands - and one wasn't a compact and the other a midsize (as wither Verano / Regal and Jetta / Passat).

I'm not sure it's necessarily a bad thing for separate segment entries to look closely alike - as long as they both look good.  To me, the Passat looks like a bar of soap, and the Jetta looks like that same bar after a week of use.  Regal looks good to me - better in person than in pictures.  I expect I'll like the Verano as well. 

Jaeger

But I was referring to the Cruze/Verano comparison.

[Flinter]

After thinking abut this some more, perhaps the difficulty to tell the  Verno and Regal apart is what the designers were hoping for. Both are handsome to look at and distinct from the competition. if you don't want the size/cost of the Regal, let me show you the new Verano.

[safristi]

"BUTT" how was the bar of soap USED..............hairy comparison IMHO ..................

[dirtyjeffer]

After thinking abut this some more, perhaps the difficulty to tell the  Verno and Regal apart is what the designers were hoping for. Both are handsome to look at and distinct from the competition. if you don't want the size/cost of the Regal, let me show you the new Verano.

but my issue (brought up months ago), was that the Verano really should have been the Regal all along (at least in terms of a base or mid trim package)...the Verano and Regal are very similar in interior space (in fact, almost identical), and in non-turbo trim, use the same engine/transmission, yet the Regal is something like $8k more...the real test is getting a salesperson to explain to you where that $8k is, because you'd have to want the Regal nameplate pretty bad to pay the price premium for it.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

but my issue (brought up months ago), was that the Verano really should have been the Regal all along (at least in terms of a base or mid trim package)...the Verano and Regal are very similar in interior space (in fact, almost identical), and in non-turbo trim, use the same engine/transmission, yet the Regal is something like $8k more...the real test is getting a salesperson to explain to you where that $8k is, because you'd have to want the Regal nameplate pretty bad to pay the price premium for it.

I still don't understand the argument. Interior dimensions don't really change much between the Elantra and Sonata either, nor between the Focus and Fusion or any number of others. It's usually a matter of an inch or two here or there, larger trunk and more width.

As far as engines, the same can be said for the 1 and 3 series BMW, same engines offered, big price gap. The 3L FSI engine is (was?) offered in the A4 and A6 again with a big price gap.

[dirtyjeffer]

the Sonata is noticeably larger inside (than the Elantra) and is immediately evident when you sit in it...as well, the engines are different...in the case of the 1 series/3 series argument, they are really designed for different markets...the 3 series is often the "benchmark sedan" but also a very competent coupe...the 1 series offers the same powertrains and brings you a smaller car as a tribute to the 2002 era (model, not year)...i understand sharing powertrains but not like it was done with the Buicks...for example, i'm not familiar with Audi, but let's say the A4 upgrade engine is the 3.0L FSI, but the same engine is the base engine for the A6...so a base A4 uses the 2.0T and you can upgrade to the 3.0L FSI, but if you spring for the A6, your starting engine is the 3.0L FSI...to me, the Verano and Regal are too similar and I don't see any reason to have the lower trim Regals at all.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

the Sonata is noticeably larger inside (than the Elantra) and is immediately evident when you sit in it...as well, the engines are different...in the case of the 1 series/3 series argument, they are really designed for different markets...the 3 series is often the "benchmark sedan" but also a very competent coupe...the 1 series offers the same powertrains and brings you a smaller car as a tribute to the 2002 era (model, not year)...i understand sharing powertrains but not like it was done with the Buicks...for example, i'm not familiar with Audi, but let's say the A4 upgrade engine is the 3.0L FSI, but the same engine is the base engine for the A6...so a base A4 uses the 2.0T and you can upgrade to the 3.0L FSI, but if you spring for the A6, your starting engine is the 3.0L FSI...to me, the Verano and Regal are too similar and I don't see any reason to have the lower trim Regals at all.

Interesting rationalizations, but the reality is car manufacturers assign prices based on marketing parameters not dimensions.

[Flinter]

but my issue (brought up months ago), was that the Verano really should have been the Regal all along (at least in terms of a base or mid trim package)...the Verano and Regal are very similar in interior space (in fact, almost identical), and in non-turbo trim, use the same engine/transmission, yet the Regal is something like $8k more...the real test is getting a salesperson to explain to you where that $8k is, because you'd have to want the Regal nameplate pretty bad to pay the price premium for it.

I still don't understand the argument. Interior dimensions don't really change much between the Elantra and Sonata either, nor between the Focus and Fusion or any number of others. It's usually a matter of an inch or two here or there, larger trunk and more width.

As far as engines, the same can be said for the 1 and 3 series BMW, same engines offered, big price gap. The 3L FSI engine is (was?) offered in the A4 and A6 again with a big price gap.

Good point. I've attached a comparison of the Regal and Verano dimensions. The Regal is basically 1-2 inches wider in width based dimensions and has put most of it's extra length into rear legroom.

[dirtyjeffer]

Good point. I've attached a comparison of the Regal and Verano dimensions. The Regal is basically 1-2 inches wider in width based dimensions and has put most of it's extra length into rear legroom.

which is exactly my point...an extra inch here or there does not equate to such a difference in price...i'm not sure what site you used to get that nice comparison chart, but i would imagine the differences between the Elantra and Sonata are likely more substantial than the ones there (not too mention the difference in engines as well)...for example, if i take top trim Elantra, top trim NA Sonata and top trim Sonata Turbo, they will all have essentially the same equipment (maybe an extra feature here or there, but they are mainly the same)...the only difference is Elantra = full features...Sonata NA gives you larger size and more powerful engine 2.4L engine...Sonata Turbo gives you paddle shifters, sport(ier) suspension, dual exhaust, larger tires (18") and the Turbo engine.

[bridgecity]

Good point. I've attached a comparison of the Regal and Verano dimensions. The Regal is basically 1-2 inches wider in width based dimensions and has put most of it's extra length into rear legroom.

which is exactly my point...an extra inch here or there does not equate to such a difference in price...i'm not sure what site you used to get that nice comparison chart, but i would imagine the differences between the Elantra and Sonata are likely more substantial than the ones there (not too mention the difference in engines as well)...for example, if i take top trim Elantra, top trim NA Sonata and top trim Sonata Turbo, they will all have essentially the same equipment (maybe an extra feature here or there, but they are mainly the same)...the only difference is Elantra = full features...Sonata NA gives you larger size and more powerful engine 2.4L engine...Sonata Turbo gives you paddle shifters, sport(ier) suspension, dual exhaust, larger tires (18") and the Turbo engine.

If you can't fathom the price differential, you'd probably have trouble with the price differential on say an Audi A4 vs a Cruze or Civic or any other car of similar size.  Its not all about size, options, features.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Good point. I've attached a comparison of the Regal and Verano dimensions. The Regal is basically 1-2 inches wider in width based dimensions and has put most of it's extra length into rear legroom.

which is exactly my point...an extra inch here or there does not equate to such a difference in price...i'm not sure what site you used to get that nice comparison chart, but i would imagine the differences between the Elantra and Sonata are likely more substantial than the ones there (not too mention the difference in engines as well)...for example, if i take top trim Elantra, top trim NA Sonata and top trim Sonata Turbo, they will all have essentially the same equipment (maybe an extra feature here or there, but they are mainly the same)...the only difference is Elantra = full features...Sonata NA gives you larger size and more powerful engine 2.4L engine...Sonata Turbo gives you paddle shifters, sport(ier) suspension, dual exhaust, larger tires (18") and the Turbo engine.

Refresh your page, I posted the differences between the Sonata and Elantra. Inch or two here and there.

Regal GS has a pile of stuff the Verano doesn't get, Hiper strut suspension, 270hp etc.

But that's not the point.

The guy who buys the Regal (or Sonata, or Fusion or 5 series) get the chance to say he's one level up  on the guy who bought a Verano (or Elantra, or Focus, or 3 series). For some people, that's pretty important, and it's a basic tenet of marketing up sell.

[Jaeger]

Holy crap - I agree with Sir O about something related to the Regal - who'dathunkit? 

Whether it will prove a sales success or not I don't pretend to know, but I don't see what's so perplexing about Buick offering both Regal and Verano to the buying customer.  I suspect I'd prefer an up-level Verano to a base Regal - but some might prefer otherwise.

Jaeger

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Holy crap - I agree with Sir O about something related to the Regal - who'dathunkit? 

Whether it will prove a sales success or not I don't pretend to know, but I don't see what's so perplexing about Buick offering both Regal and Verano to the buying customer.  I suspect I'd prefer an up-level Verano to a base Regal - but some might prefer otherwise.

Jaeger

 

[dirtyjeffer]

Regal GS has a pile of stuff the Verano doesn't get, Hiper strut suspension, 270hp etc.

i am well aware of the Regal GS (i mentioned that in my post)...my point was simply, why would anyone move up from the well equipped $27,620 Verano (top trim) to the (essentially identical) Regal CXL (non-turbo) at $35,885 (top non-turbo trim)?...the cars are almost the same size (aside from the Regal having more rear passenger space), the same engine, same transmission, the same colour (I chose Summit White) and the Verano is even something like 200 pounds lighter...my question is simply, where is the $8,265??...because I certainly don't see it.

this isn't a knock against either car...i like the Regal, and i like the Verano...i just don't understand GMs duplicity in this model with a very wide price gap...as i have said long before, the Verano should have been the non-turbo Regal...that car is affordable, well equipped and seems to be reasonably good value for the dollar (which the Regal always has been)...then, they could step up to the "Regal Turbo and GS" models for more power and premium features (electronic suspension, etc).

honestly, i might actually check out the Verano personally...it likely won't be "powerful enough" for me, but it looks good, checks most of my features boxes, and at $27k the only feature missing is Nav, but that can be added for $995 if i wish to spend that much for it.