Topic: First Drive: 2012 Buick Verano

[Sir Osis of Liver]

i am well aware of the Regal GS (i mentioned that in my post)...my point was simply, why would anyone move up from the well equipped $27,620 Verano (top trim) to the (essentially identical) Regal CXL (non-turbo) at $35,885 (top non-turbo trim)?...the cars are almost the same size (aside from the Regal having more rear passenger space), the same engine, same transmission, the same colour (I chose Summit White) and the Verano is even something like 200 pounds lighter...my question is simply, where is the $8,265??...because I certainly don't see it.

For the same reason people have always made the decision to buy a loaded up entry level car versus a base midlevel car.

Which would you rather own an Elantra Ltd with navigation for $24699 or a Sonata GL with auto for $24299? Some will want the entry Sonata, some will want the loaded Elantra.

[safristi]

Loaded Elantra..!!! does it come with..............

[dirtyjeffer]

For the same reason people have always made the decision to buy a loaded up entry level car versus a base midlevel car.

Which would you rather own an Elantra Ltd with navigation for $24699 or a Sonata GL with auto for $24299? Some will want the entry Sonata, some will want the loaded Elantra.

you aren't using valid comparisons there (that relate to my question).

my question would be more like the loaded Elantra $24,699 with the loaded Sonata for $31,699...a difference of $7,000...that $7,000 for the loaded Sonata gets you a larger, more powerful engine, a larger car (in virtually all dimensions), a panoramic power roof, an upgraded audio system, front windshield de-icing system and power driver's seat with Lumbar support...some may argue the need to spend the $7k there, which is understandable as a few features, space and power may not be worth $7k to some, and i get that...what i don't get is where is the $8265 between the two top trims of Verano and Regal?...as i said, they are virtually the same size (aside from a big of rear passenger room), they have the exact same engine and transmission and are both very similarly equipped (very, very close).

[Sir Osis of Liver]

For the same reason people have always made the decision to buy a loaded up entry level car versus a base midlevel car.

Which would you rather own an Elantra Ltd with navigation for $24699 or a Sonata GL with auto for $24299? Some will want the entry Sonata, some will want the loaded Elantra.

you aren't using valid comparisons there (that relate to my question).

my question would be more like the loaded Elantra $24,699 with the loaded Sonata for $31,699...a difference of $7,000...that $7,000 for the loaded Sonata gets you a larger, more powerful engine, a larger car (in virtually all dimensions), a panoramic power roof, an upgraded audio system, front windshield de-icing system and power driver's seat with Lumbar support...some may argue the need to spend the $7k there, which is understandable as a few features, space and power may not be worth $7k to some, and i get that...what i don't get is where is the $8265 between the two top trims of Verano and Regal?...as i said, they are virtually the same size (aside from a big of rear passenger room), they have the exact same engine and transmission and are both very similarly equipped (very, very close).

It's a completely valid question and relevant to the topic. Some people will buy a base Sonata for essentially the same money as an Elantra Limited with navigation, just because they don't want an entry level nameplate, just as some will buy an entry Regal over a loaded Verano. I doubt very much that many people will be cross shopping loaded entry level cars versus loaded mid-sizers.

The size question is irrelevant. The difference in interior dimensions between the Regal and Verano are similar to the difference in those of other compact and midsizers. In most people's minds, it's the difference in exterior dimensions which define a car's class, regardless of the EPA classification scheme (the Bentley Continental GTC is a subcompact car according to the EPA).

For a car of its size, the Verano's base engine is already uplevel. It could have been offered with the 1.4T or 1.8 NA as in the Cruze, but GM has decide that the Verano is premium and is equipped as such. 

[CanuckG35]

I haven't seen any Veranos in the flesh yet but I think the Regal is a very attractive car.  The Verano appears to be a mini me version of the Regal, which IMO is a very good thing. 

And I see we still can't get through a Buick thread without Hyundai being mentioned.....

[dirtyjeffer]

It's a completely valid question and relevant to the topic. Some people will buy a base Sonata for essentially the same money as an Elantra Limited with navigation, just because they don't want an entry level nameplate, just as some will buy an entry Regal over a loaded Verano. I doubt very much that many people will be cross shopping loaded entry level cars versus loaded mid-sizers.

i am not sure why you are arguing points i am not making...i am not talking about Loaded Verano vs Base Regal or Loaded Cruze vs Base Regal...i'm not even talking about comparing loaded compact vs base mid-size...i am talking about comparing loaded Verano to loaded Regal (non-turbo)...where is the $8265 as they are essentially the same car (aside from a little extra rear passenger space), yet there is a substantial price difference.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It's a completely valid question and relevant to the topic. Some people will buy a base Sonata for essentially the same money as an Elantra Limited with navigation, just because they don't want an entry level nameplate, just as some will buy an entry Regal over a loaded Verano. I doubt very much that many people will be cross shopping loaded entry level cars versus loaded mid-sizers.

i am not sure why you are arguing points i am not making...i am not talking about Loaded Verano vs Base Regal or Loaded Cruze vs Base Regal...i'm not even talking about comparing loaded compact vs base mid-size...i am talking about comparing loaded Verano to loaded Regal (non-turbo)...where is the $8265 as they are essentially the same car (aside from a little extra rear passenger space), yet there is a substantial price difference.

It's a dumb point. Why would anyone buy a loaded 2.4L Corolla XRS versus a 4 cylinder Camry XLE? Or 535ix for $65k, when you can get the same engine in the 335i for $51k? The reality is, people cross shopping loaded mid-size cars and loaded compacts would be hugely exceptional. People tend to set a budget and see what fits.

You are completely glossing over the differences between the Verano and Regal, and completely ignoring the point that people may buy a car for completely intangible reasons.

[Jaeger]

I haven't seen any Veranos in the flesh yet but I think the Regal is a very attractive car.  The Verano appears to be a mini me version of the Regal, which IMO is a very good thing. 

And I see we still can't get through a Buick thread without Hyundai being mentioned.....

We can't get through any thread without Hyundai being mentioned - the Sonata in particular.  Don't blame me... 

Agreed that both these cars look good, which as I said, is a more important factor than how closely they resemble each other.

Jaeger

[Ice]

I'm coming late to this discussion but I have to say that I like the looks of the Verano. It's reasonably priced for a premium small car while offering just enough features and refinement and while the exterior is alright... the interior does appear, in photos, to be quite good. I definitely want to sit in one at the next Auto Show. Even if it's just for kicks.

For me... at the moment anyways... If I were faced with a bigger car or a smaller more premium car for the same money I'd go for the smaller one. Often times the smaller more premium car is priced way out of range. I see this as a good middle ground.

Also, as far as the market is concerned... it's meant for China. If it does well in the US as well then it helps spread R&D/architecture costs so I can see why it's here. It's definitely better than any previous small car entry that they have tried.

[dirtyjeffer]

It's a dumb point. Why would anyone buy a loaded 2.4L Corolla XRS versus a 4 cylinder Camry XLE? Or 535ix for $65k, when you can get the same engine in the 335i for $51k? The reality is, people cross shopping loaded mid-size cars and loaded compacts would be hugely exceptional. People tend to set a budget and see what fits.

You are completely glossing over the differences between the Verano and Regal, and completely ignoring the point that people may buy a car for completely intangible reasons.

ok, just as i thought...even YOU can't tell me what you get for the $8265, which is saying a lot, considering you jump to "defend" any criticism of the Regal in any thread...as i said, they are essentially the exact same car...a Camry is much larger than a Corolla and a 5 series is also much larger than a 3 series...your comparisons are not valid.

[Flinter]

It's a dumb point. Why would anyone buy a loaded 2.4L Corolla XRS versus a 4 cylinder Camry XLE? Or 535ix for $65k, when you can get the same engine in the 335i for $51k? The reality is, people cross shopping loaded mid-size cars and loaded compacts would be hugely exceptional. People tend to set a budget and see what fits.

You are completely glossing over the differences between the Verano and Regal, and completely ignoring the point that people may buy a car for completely intangible reasons.

ok, just as i thought...even YOU can't tell me what you get for the $8265, which is saying a lot, considering you jump to "defend" any criticism of the Regal in any thread...as i said, they are essentially the exact same car...a Camry is much larger than a Corolla and a 5 series is also much larger than a 3 series...your comparisons are not valid.

There are examples with other auto manufacturers that mirror that of the Verano vs Regal. Have a look at the A4/A6 comparison attached, the delta in dimensions between the 2 is very comparable to the Verano/Regal.

You make a point with regards to the difference in MSRP... ~8K is a sizable difference and probably optimistic pricing by Buick. However, in the case of the A4/A6 the difference is ~15K although I admit that these 2 use different engines.

In any event the ~8K price difference you have noted repeatedly is just a difference in MSRP. I have not put much stock in any MSRP from GM in a long long time. While the 8K difference is not absurd compared to other auto manufacturers(see A4/A6 comparo), I suspect that the market will dictate that the actual sale prices between the Verano/Regal will be closer with larger discounts on the Regal.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

ok, just as i thought...even YOU can't tell me what you get for the $8265, which is saying a lot, considering you jump to "defend" any criticism of the Regal in any thread...as i said, they are essentially the exact same car...a Camry is much larger than a Corolla and a 5 series is also much larger than a 3 series...your comparisons are not valid.

They both use different platforms, the aren't the same size as Flinter points out, they ride and handle differently based on preliminary reviews and they are priced according to the classes GM is targeting. Are those differences huge? Probably not. Are they enough to justify the price difference? For some yes, for others no.

I have been using other manufacturers as examples, but you persist in ignoring the point. GM is not exceptional in this at all. You can do spreadsheet comparisons 'till you're blue in the face, some people will still pick a midsizer, some the entry level car, regardless of how you rationalize their decision.

Further to Flinter's point above, the A6 is available with the 2.0T in the US, but not Canada. So why would someone bother with the $42k 2.0T A6, when you can get the $33k A4?

[Ice]

I'm assuming the Regal is a much sportier car with some extra room while the Verano is a bit more compact and narrower to boot and not nearly as sporty. If they do a GS version then I'll be a bit more confused... and I hear they might.

Maybe another apt description (although maybe not the best point making one) is the CSX versus the TSX. Is the Verano that much larger that it's almost the same size as a Regal?

[Jaeger]

I'm assuming the Regal is a much sportier car with some extra room while the Verano is a bit more compact and narrower to boot and not nearly as sporty. If they do a GS version then I'll be a bit more confused... and I hear they might.

Maybe another apt description (although maybe not the best point making one) is the CSX versus the TSX. Is the Verano that much larger that it's almost the same size as a Regal?

I wouldn't assume that the Regal (GS aside) is "much sportier" than the Verano.

Jaeger

[dirtyjeffer]

I wouldn't assume that the Regal (GS aside) is "much sportier" than the Verano.

Jaeger

exactly...the Regal (non-turbo trim) has the same powertrain and weighs about 200 pounds more than the Verano.