Author Topic: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline  (Read 4665 times)

Offline BernardP

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2011, 11:00:57 am »
The article says: an all-new engine with better fuel economy would have really made the new Passat stand out among other mid-size sedans

VW already had the perfect engine for the Jetta: the 2.0T. Obviously, they didn't want to put it in the new Passat to save costs, but this engine should/could have been optional.

My wife drives a 2010 Passat with the 2.0T and 6-speed manual, both ideally suited to the car.

The new Passat, although a valid competitor to the Accord and Camry, will have no interest for us, because, for our needs, its bigger size has no added value, and none of the powertrain choices matches the performance and economy of the 2.0T.


Offline Allmanual

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 11:04:03 am »

+1. I remember test driving the previous Jetta when it first came out years ago, and I distinctly remember how I liked the torquey engine and pickup at any speed. I liked the sound and feel of the I5. Not sure what the beef is at all. It is, in my opinion, better than any competitors 4-cyl.
Now, the clutch was very touchy. That Jetta was the only car besides Genesis coupe 3.8 that I managed to stall.


I have to concur on that point the clutch need some getting used to but the shifter as a great feel to it, so it balences out,  :P



No doubt it did well on the hwy but around town (where most cars spend the vast majority of their time) the Echo would beat it by huge margin.

And to make a note that a 2008 Jetta is still running smoothly is nothing special.  My 1998 Taurus runs smoothly too.

As a pass owner of an echo I have to agree, but it depends on the intended purposed. As you can see from the current mileage of my car, I spend most of my time on the highway. So the VW serves me well. I also think that most VWs are bad on fuel in town just because of the weight.

Offline Spheric

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2011, 11:11:32 am »
"Understated elegance" is one thing but the Passat looks visually too close to a Chevrolet Impala (side view) as well the latest Jetta. It needs something external to differentiate itself from the herd.

I'll be curious to see the mid-2012 facelift of the Passat CC, which is predicted to have a 5th passenger seat added. If that happens then I think it will be a no brainer as to which car gets my theoretical money.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 11:12:48 am »
Not sure what the beef is at all. It is, in my opinion, better than any competitors 4-cyl.

Seriously?  Even those competitors whose 4 cyl. engines offer more power AND better fuel economy?  Sounds like you (and perhaps some other defenders of the 2.5) haven't driven much of the recent competition.  I test drove the 2.5 Jetta back to back against the Cruze and Elantra.  The Jetta mill presented as coarse, loud, dated and positively agricultural against those.  And it is well behind the times when it comes to fuel consumption - and increasingly important factor industry-wide.  And even if we're talking about the larger displacement fours found in Passat (as opposed to Jetta) competitors - the 5-pot doesn't compare favourably, to say the least, against the likes of the 200hp Honda 4.  Not hard at all to figure out some of the strategies employed to enhance the new Passat's primary virtue: low price.

"Understated elegance" is one thing but the Passat looks visually too close to a Chevrolet Impala (side view) as well the latest Jetta. It needs something external to differentiate itself from the herd.

I think it looks an awful lot like the Camry - from about 4 generations ago.  About as visually dynamic as a bar of soap.  But hey, Toyota sold a bunch of those.  There is definitely a market for bland.

Jaeger
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 11:16:20 am by Jaeger »

Offline ktm525

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 11:20:03 am »
Ahh yes the inline 5. All the power and coarseness of a 4 cylinder with the fuel economy of a six. ;D

Offline whaddaiknow

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2011, 11:25:15 am »
No doubt it did well on the hwy but around town (where most cars spend the vast majority of their time) the Echo would beat it by huge margin.
And to make a note that a 2008 Jetta is still running smoothly is nothing special.  My 1998 Taurus runs smoothly too.

Equip that Passat with the available diesel and then see the Echo appeal all but disappear.

Then look at the competition. Pretty much all of them - Camry, Accord, Sonata, Optima come with 2 engine choices - 2,4 (2.5) I4 and 3.5 V6 or 2.0 turbo. None of them offer a diesel! 99% of you on this forum whine about lack of diesel options. VW gives you one (yet another) and now some forum members complain that it also needs a 6-speed and a wagon before they would consider it. Sheesh.

At least, walking into a VW showroom, you do have a choice like no other. I personally like and would be happy with the I5. You want power? There's the 3.6 for ya. You want range and fuel economy? There's the diesel for ya. And if they come up with a small displacement turbo a bit later in the game, this would become one of the most compelling overall packages on Canadian market bar none.

Looks are highly subjective, as we all agree. But conservative looks are less polarizing and tend to age better than bold designs. As much as I like the new Optima, I am now beginning to notice minor details that I overlooked at first encounter that tend to reduce its appeal. The Sonata doesn't stand out anymore and has turned into 'just another car' on the road which is expected. The Passat, on the other hand, has the potential to grow on me, unlike the DOA Regal  :rofl2: :run:

Offline whaddaiknow

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2011, 11:34:11 am »
Not sure what the beef is at all. It is, in my opinion, better than any competitors 4-cyl.

Seriously?  Even those competitors whose 4 cyl. engines offer more power AND better fuel economy?  Sounds like you (and perhaps some other defenders of the 2.5) haven't driven much of the recent competition.  I test drove the 2.5 Jetta back to back against the Cruze and Elantra.  The Jetta mill presented as coarse, loud, dated and positively agricultural against those.  And it is well behind the times when it comes to fuel consumption - and increasingly important factor industry-wide.  And even if we're talking about the larger displacement fours found in Passat (as opposed to Jetta) competitors - the 5-pot doesn't compare favourably, to say the least, against the likes of the 200hp Honda 4.  Not hard at all to figure out some of the strategies employed to enhance the new Passat's primary virtue: low price.

"Understated elegance" is one thing but the Passat looks visually too close to a Chevrolet Impala (side view) as well the latest Jetta. It needs something external to differentiate itself from the herd.

I think it looks an awful lot like the Camry - from about 4 generations ago.  About as visually dynamic as a bar of soap.  But hey, Toyota sold a bunch of those.  There is definitely a market for bland.

Jaeger

Speaking of 4-cyl engines, I was talking strictly about the competitors' normally aspirated offerings. Not the turbo.
I have driven the latest Accord 4-cyl as my brother just bought one, both NA and turbo Sonatas, Camry. Maybe I am spoiled by my current I6 but I was very underwhelmed by the 4's. The Sonata mill I enjoyed the most though it was still pretty loud and coarse when pushed.
I am not saying the I5 is a marvel but it is, IN MY BOOKS, adequate AND competitive for its intended purpose, which is basic no frills family sedan, whether others agree with me or not.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2011, 11:34:28 am »
Ahh yes the inline 5. All the power and coarseness of a 4 cylinder with the fuel economy of a six. ;D

Bingo.  ;D

Jaeger

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2011, 11:40:37 am »
Speaking of 4-cyl engines, I was talking strictly about the competitors' normally aspirated offerings. Not the turbo.
I have driven the latest Accord 4-cyl as my brother just bought one, both NA and turbo Sonatas, Camry. Maybe I am spoiled by my current I6 but I was very underwhelmed by the 4's. The Sonata mill I enjoyed the most though it was still pretty loud and coarse when pushed.
I am not saying the I5 is a marvel but it is, IN MY BOOKS, adequate AND competitive for its intended purpose, which is basic no frills family sedan, whether others agree with me or not.

Yeah - I was speaking of the normally aspirated 4's as well - which kick out around 200 hp in Optima, Sonata and Accord.  The turbos are in the 270-plus range.  And I really can't understand how you could be "underwhelmed" by the normally aspirated 4s in Accord and Sonata as compared with your I6, but yet declare this 5 cyl. tractor motor to be BETTER than ANY of the 4 cyl. competition (which is surely a far cry from "adequate and competitive for its intended purpose").  Sure, it's YOUR BOOK - but what's written there doesn't make a bunch of sense to me.

Jaeger

Offline aquadorhj

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2011, 11:52:21 am »
i drive Rabbit when i'm not driving ...the other thing..  and the I5 is not a pleasant motor, to be absolutely clear.

it's OK...  that's the best i can say about it. It IS torquey compared to older I4's that were in japanese compact cars, but i dunno...  nowadays, it's probably the worst engine in use out of all the modern compact/mid size cars.

Driving thrills makes my wallet lighter.. and therefore makes me faster because i'm shedding weight... :D

Offline whaddaiknow

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2011, 12:05:42 pm »

Yeah - I was speaking of the normally aspirated 4's as well - which kick out around 200 hp in Optima, Sonata and Accord.  The turbos are in the 270-plus range.  And I really can't understand how you could be "underwhelmed" by the normally aspirated 4s in Accord and Sonata as compared with your I6, but yet declare this 5 cyl. tractor motor to be BETTER than ANY of the 4 cyl. competition (which is surely a far cry from "adequate and competitive for its intended purpose").  Sure, it's YOUR BOOK - but what's written there doesn't make a bunch of sense to me.

Jaeger

Is it a surprise to you that I was underwhelmed by the 4 compared to the I6 or are you saying that, relative to what it is, I should be impressed? Sorry I was not. the 4 in the Accord is very buzzy with not much go. The initial tip-in tricks you into thinking that it's fast but pushing the go pedal past the 1/3 doesn't generate much more accelaration but definitely creates a lot of noise that is far from pleasant. The Sonata was smoother and better is every respect and a perfect match for the size of the car but still did not promote spirited driving. The I5 has a different soundtrack that I personally happen to like. It sounds like a tractor to you - fine, it creates a different association in me. I found the I5 engine had a better torque curve that didn't require downshifting in city traffic. That was my impression. My impression may be swayed by the fact the I5 I drove was a manual while all others (Canry, Accord and Sonata) were automatics but it's still my impression.

Passat with the I5 is not an enthusiast's car but neither are any of its competitors. And I don't need to apologise to anyone for the fact that I happen to like that I5, though I would personally rather opt for the diesel.

Offline ktm525

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2011, 12:10:18 pm »
I will admit to never driving the VW I5 but the other two (Audi and Volvo, both 2.5L) had similar characteristics. First off they were unrefined.  Both had weird vibrations at idle, not 4 cylinder shake but more of a smooth-smooth-vibrate rythem. At WOT they both produced a sort of groaning sound. I much prefer the grunty growl of a V6. I don't recall my VW 1.8T as having as much weird vibrations.

Offline jjc

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2011, 12:12:30 pm »
I believe there's an error in the article.  The Jetta no longer has multi-link at the rear, that's why it's so much cheaper now (in some trims).  You need to get the GLI to get an independent rear suspension.  Please update the article.

Offline aaronk

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2011, 12:18:55 pm »
I believe there's an error in the article.  The Jetta no longer has multi-link at the rear, that's why it's so much cheaper now (in some trims).  You need to get the GLI to get an independent rear suspension.  Please update the article.

The GLI is still a Jetta...

Offline Allmanual

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2011, 12:20:27 pm »
Oh and one more thing about the 2.5 is that you only have to do the oil change every 16000Kms, very practical

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2011, 12:23:40 pm »
Is it a surprise to you that I was underwhelmed by the 4 compared to the I6 or are you saying that, relative to what it is, I should be impressed? Sorry I was not. the 4 in the Accord is very buzzy with not much go. The initial tip-in tricks you into thinking that it's fast but pushing the go pedal past the 1/3 doesn't generate much more accelaration but definitely creates a lot of noise that is far from pleasant. The Sonata was smoother and better is every respect and a perfect match for the size of the car but still did not promote spirited driving. The I5 has a different soundtrack that I personally happen to like. It sounds like a tractor to you - fine, it creates a different association in me. I found the I5 engine had a better torque curve that didn't require downshifting in city traffic. That was my impression. My impression may be swayed by the fact the I5 I drove was a manual while all others (Canry, Accord and Sonata) were automatics but it's still my impression.

Passat with the I5 is not an enthusiast's car but neither are any of its competitors. And I don't need to apologise to anyone for the fact that I happen to like that I5, though I would personally rather opt for the diesel.

No - not at all surprised that the 4's would underwhelm as compared to a relatively small displacement BMW I6 - as engines don't get much smoother or sweeter than that.  But Accord and Sonata do not compete against BMW 3-series.

I AM surprised that you find the VW 5-cylinder - and engine widely derided, and justifiably so - to be clearly superior to contemporary 4-cylinder offerings.  As I pointed out, a number of those engines offer both more power and better fuel economy - two fairly significant non-subjective criteria by which the VW 5-pot is definitely not "better". Yes, you're entitled to your opinion.  Just as I'm entitled to find your opinion quite strange in this instance.  And no-one has asked you to apologize for your 5-cylinder love, so your refusal to do so is kind of pointless.

Jaeger
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 12:25:43 pm by Jaeger »

Offline Allmanual

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2011, 12:30:28 pm »
I will admit to never driving the VW I5 but the other two (Audi and Volvo, both 2.5L) had similar characteristics. First off they were unrefined.  Both had weird vibrations at idle, not 4 cylinder shake but more of a smooth-smooth-vibrate rythem. At WOT they both produced a sort of groaning sound. I much prefer the grunty growl of a V6. I don't recall my VW 1.8T as having as much weird vibrations.

Well there's your problem, Both Audi an Volvo I5 where chop up 6, Not a dedicated engine, and in the mid life refresher in 2008 the I5 lost those vibration. It revs smoothly up to 6500 RPM and at idle it's barely notable if the engine is on or not. And the sound of an engine can be a bit of a personal preference... I4 with DI to my ear almost all sound like sewing machines, bat that's my personal opinion.  :P

Offline ktm525

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2011, 12:35:11 pm »
I will admit to never driving the VW I5 but the other two (Audi and Volvo, both 2.5L) had similar characteristics. First off they were unrefined.  Both had weird vibrations at idle, not 4 cylinder shake but more of a smooth-smooth-vibrate rythem. At WOT they both produced a sort of groaning sound. I much prefer the grunty growl of a V6. I don't recall my VW 1.8T as having as much weird vibrations.

Well there's your problem, Both Audi an Volvo I5 where chop up 6, Not a dedicated engine, and in the mid life refresher in 2008 the I5 lost those vibration. It revs smoothly up to 6500 RPM and at idle it's barely notable if the engine is on or not. And the sound of an engine can be a bit of a personal preference... I4 with DI to my ear almost all sound like sewing machines, bat that's my personal opinion.  :P


I did have a short test drive of the Jetta's I5 in 2006. Coming from a chipped 1.8T in the Passat I recall it being a let down not only in performance but in vibration/harshness. I guess VW has addressed this since 5 years have passed.

Offline Allmanual

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2011, 12:39:02 pm »


No - not at all surprised that the 4's would underwhelm as compared to a relatively small displacement BMW I6 - as engines don't get much smoother or sweeter than that.  But Accord and Sonata do not compete against BMW 3-series.

I AM surprised that you find the VW 5-cylinder - and engine widely derided, and justifiably so - to be clearly superior to contemporary 4-cylinder offerings.  As I pointed out, a number of those engines offer both more power and better fuel economy - two fairly significant non-subjective criteria by which the VW 5-pot is definitely not "better". Yes, you're entitled to your opinion.  Just as I'm entitled to find your opinion quite strange in this instance.  And no-one has asked you to apologize for your 5-cylinder love, so your refusal to do so is kind of pointless.

Jaeger

Ok Where to start, It might have 5 cylinders but only has 2.5l of displacement, so lets compare engines with the same displacement,  just for fun

2011 Jetta       2.5 L5 170HP@5700  68.0HP/Liter  177lb.ft@4250  70.8lb.ft/Liter
2011 Camry    2.5 L4 169HP@6000  67.6HP/Liter  167lb.ft@4100  66.8lb.ft/Liter
2011 Impreza  2.5 H4 170HP@6000  68.0HP/Liter  170lb.ft@4400  68.0lb.ft/Liter
2011 Sonata   2.4 L4  198HP@6300  82.5HP/Liter  184lb.ft@4250  67.7lb.ft/Liter
2011 Malibu    2.5 L4  170HP@6200  68.0HP/Liter  158lb.ft@5200  63.2lb.ft/Liter

So the number do not lie, only the much more tech savi Sonata 2.4 is more volumetricly efficient.
I'm in now way saying it's the best engine(It's not) but compare it to its peer and it's standing fairly good.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2012 VW Passat 2.5 Comfortline
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2011, 12:40:29 pm »
I did have a short test drive of the Jetta's I5 in 2006. Coming from a chipped 1.8T in the Passat I recall it being a let down not only in performance but in vibration/harshness. I guess VW has addressed this since 5 years have passed.

Nope.  At least not in the brand new Jetta I test drove.

Jaeger