Topic: Is a TDI worth it?

[aaronk]

I drive a lot throughout the course of a year. I put on about 35-40K Kms every year, so needless to say fuel economy is a significant factor in my car buying habits. A few folks at my office have purchased new VW TDI's, and (to my endless frustration) decide to share their ridiculously good mileage about 3 times a day with the rest of us poor 87-burners.

VW's are on the top of my list, specifically the Golf Trendline. I can get into that car in base trim for about $21K as a 3-door. The TDI, only available in a 5-door, is about $25,500 with a stick. So my question is, is it worth it? If I drive 38K Kms a year will it pay off over a 5-year period to buy a TDI? Some things I'm considering are things like increased cost of borrowing (interest), higher maintenance for the diesel engine, etc. From my rough calculations on FuelEconomy.gov, my savings in fuel might be as much as $1K/year, but then there's that maintenance of the TDI. From what I understand there are specific requirements for additives that can add up.

Anyways, if anybody out there has any thoughts I'd be glad to hear them!

[vdk]

High maintenance costs? I can only think of the synthetic oil that's ~$100 for 16,000km, but the $/km ratio is about the same as when using cheaper dyno oil, so you're not losing any money. You don't have to replace spark plugs with a diesel engine either. No DSG either, since you're getting a manual.

All in all I think maintaining a diesel engine is actually cheaper than a turboed gasoline engine.

[SaskSpecV]

I was in a similar quandary when contemplating the Golf TDI Wagon.  What tipped the scales for me is that my wife and I only put on about 15K km per year, maybe 20 with some longer road trips.  So when calculating the fuel savings, it wasn't siginificant enough to overcome the extra cost versus the 2.5L (break even was about 8 years, IIRC).  That was assuming equal gas and diesel prices - right now gas is 110.9 and diesel is 129.9 in my area, which is the largest spread I can remember.  But next year it may be the other way around...

Of course there's also the potential maintenance issues.  Some folks claim the VW TDIs are indestructable and easily run to 300K+ km.  Others say that they are massive repair bills just waiting to happen.  I have no idea.  Resale value of the TDIs appears to be much higher, but I keep vehicles for a very long time - resale value doesn't impact my decision much.

I will admit, I really liked the torque of the TDI.  And the 6-speed M/T was pretty sweet.  I think if I had bought the TDI, it would have been because I really wanted the vehicle itself, and not due to the fuel savings.

[johngenx]

With VW, I'd either buy a TDI or the GTI.  The diesel is nicer to drive than the gasoline versions except for the GTI.

One bummer about diesels is they are still hard to start if they sit unplugged at very low temps.  Since I frequently leave my vehicle at trailheads for many nights at a time in very cold weather, I'd have to have a remote-start with a cold temp sensor to run the car periodically when I was absent.  A diesel specific remote start is pricey, but...

That would be my only condition with a TDI.

[tortoise]

What kind of driving is that 38k?  I presume mostly highway with a little city thrown in.  If so, the TDI makes a lot of sense and I'd get one over the 3-door in a heartbeat.  If there's a good chunk of city driving thrown in I'd go the hybrid route,  but that means no VW.

Another thing to consider is resale.  TDI's hold on to their value MUCH better than VW gas models*,  particularly when the mileage gets up there.   Resale + Fuel Savings guarantees that you'll make up the difference in cost.


* comment based on asking prices, not actual transaction prices.

[articsteve]

So my question is, is it worth it?e

Only if you really want a diesel just because you love that type of motor.

CONS:

The interest costs will negate the fuel savings

Diesel prices in Ontario can become volatile without any warning or reason.

The fuel stinks, you will need a dedicated pair of gloves to pump it, because even the residual on the pump handle will penetrate and stink up your hand.

The oil changes are $120. plus tax every 15k km.

Apparently this TDI is great, however, it still has glow plugs and it has that DPF system which adds possible complexity out of warranty.

PLUSES:

Resale is great.  But in 5 years who knows how far gas/hybrids have come.

What are you driving now?


 

[aaronk]

So my question is, is it worth it?e

Resale is great.  But in 5 years who knows how far gas/hybrids have come.

What are you driving now?

You mention 'how far gas/hybrids have come', which is a good point because right now the new 2012 Hyundai Accent 1.6L hatchback gets almost the same mileage as the TDI, although it has much less torque.

The thing is, I drive an '03 Protege5 that is actually kind of a pig on gas. I average about 10L/100 Kms, and my driving is 60/40 highway/city. But I love how it drives - it feels nimble and agile, reactive to my input. I enjoy driving it. I don't know if I could feel the same way about an Accent, let alone a hybrid. This is why the VW is tops on my list right now - I still get a drivers' car but its good on gas.

@Johngenx, the GTI is the dream car - good mileage plus 200hp, but alas this isn't realistic for me right now.

[tortoise]

Mazda3 with Skyactiv?

[articsteve]

the new 2012 Hyundai Accent 1.6L hatchback gets almost the same mileage as the TDI, although it has much less torque.

Yesterday the APA I believe, could be somebody else, alleged that Transport Canada fuel mileage numbers were 15-20% off the mark which I totally agree with.

In contrast, I hear lots of talk that under the same "tests" diesels are under rated by at least 10%.  I have no doubt that in real world driving by somebody like you (driver's car type) that the Golf TDI bests the Accent by 30%.

Do you expense your vehicle for tax purpose?

You only live once.  If you've got the itch for a Golf (upgrade stock tires) TDI in stick then follow your emotional compass.     You can always bail on that car.  Always a market.

[SaskSpecV]

Mazda3 with Skyactiv?

Sounds like a good compromise to me.  Much lower initial purchase price, fuel costs SHOULD be similar to the diesel - assuming it can get anywhere close to its ratings, which the TDIs seem capable of doing.  More importantly, a good drivers car like the Golf.  And most importantly - still available with a stick!  Still wouldn't get that diesel torque punch-in-the-back though. But is that worth 5K +?

[airbalancer]

Have you driven a Golf for a couple of a hour and find it comfortable  ?

I want one but it did not suit my body 

[airbalancer]

Get a  Prius for good mileage 

[sailor723]

Sounds to me like you "want" the Golf. If it's that close I'd go with your gut.

[aaronk]

Get a  Prius for good mileage 

Ha ha, I know it's the mileage king but as someone else said, you only live once - I think there's a compromise out there between fun-to-drive and fuel economy. I can't judge because I have not driven a Prius, but from just about every publication I hear a resounding consensus that it is very boring...but very frugal.

The SkyActiv Mazda3 is a good suggestion, that wasn't on my immediate radar but after looking into it, it does sound like a convincing and fun little car.

[articsteve]

Have you driven a Golf for a couple of a hour and find it comfortable  ?

I drove a 4 door top trim level, 2.5, down to Toronto and back same day.  Nice vehicle is what I remember.  I just wouldn't purchase one with that 2.5  because out of warranty it has the potential to be a wallet killer and the power is low for the amount of fuel used.  TDI is definetly the way to go.

[quadzilla]

Have you driven a Golf for a couple of a hour and find it comfortable  ?

I want one but it did not suit my body 

I have done many long distance drive of 6-10 hours with no issues. Everybody is different.

[No H2O]

VW's are on the top of my list, specifically the Golf Trendline. I can get into that car in base trim for about $21K as a 3-door. The TDI, only available in a 5-door, is about $25,500 with a stick.

I don't quite understand your logic above. I take it you are getting into a VW because they offer a diesel and you would like the efficiency because of the high miles you drive per year. So why even discuss the 3-door non diesel? By the way, a 3-door Golf TDI is available in the US.

I've never owned one, but I was under the impression that one of the qualities of a diesel engine is its long life and low maintenance.

I'd be buying a diesel for two reasons; fuel economy and the low end torque...they only rev 2100 RPM at 100 clicks...not bad for a small 4-cylinder.

Close in fuel efficiency is a Toyota Corolla at 51 MPGs.

[No H2O]

Get a Prius for good mileage 

I wouldn't consider any hybrid just for complexity reasons alone.

[articsteve]

Close in fuel efficiency is a Toyota Corolla at 51 MPGs.

minus 20%

[johngenx]

I don't know miles or gallons, but our Corolla easily sees 5.5L/100km on the highway.  Low 6's at 125+km/h, and low to mid 5's at 100-110km/h.  On lower speed highways (90km/h) I've had a few tanks a hair under 5.

Diesel engines used to outlive gas engines as the components were made uber-strong to withstand the massive compression ratios.  Today, there is no real advantage.  Mercedes has a long history of diesel production, and today's gas engines benefit from strong construction, clean oils, better/cleaner gas, precise fuel metering and live as long as comparable diesel engines.

The two things I loved about the Mercedes diesel we owned were the massive low end torque and exceptional fuel economy.  It was as quick as the gas six and had a terrific range of over 1000kms thanks to 6.5L/100km fuel economy.