Author Topic: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.  (Read 863 times)

Offline johngenx

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2011, 02:40:41 pm »
Interesting that an advertisement on a web site is not covered.  AMVIC needs to leap to 1995...
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Offline Cord

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2011, 02:50:55 pm »
I believe dealership websites are considered as extensions of the showroom, not strictly advertising. And since vehicles cannot be purchased directly from those websites ...

Those laws don't cover signs on the vehicles at the dealership either.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2011, 02:53:34 pm »
I was thinking of Autotrader.ca...

(Can a vehicle be purchased from a newspaper?)

Offline Cord

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2011, 02:56:15 pm »
You'll have to ask AMVIC for clarification. I just remember them saying something along those lines.

Offline ktm525

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2011, 03:50:06 pm »
I bought the Ridgeline for a one line price. It was the price + GST.  I indicated I didn't care how they split up the charges, that was their problem. Armed with a dealer cost sheet I added in 4% markup. Done.


Offline tenpenny

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2011, 05:27:05 pm »

Yes, people hate them.  It sours the buying experience, especially if they're introduced after a so-called price has been agreed upon.  So, we have something that our customers HATE.  So, let's keep doing it!!  Yay, we have yet another tool to :censor: people off.

It makes money, and people put up with it, as much as they hate it.

If selling cars that way didn't make money, I'm pretty sure the dealers would do it differently.


Offline ktm525

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2011, 05:41:17 pm »
They pray on the fact that car buying in most cases more emotional than rational. By sucking up your time the customer  already has too much vested in the deal to walk. The total price tag is so large in most cases that consumers seem to switch off the common sense part of the brain.

As I mentioned before my latest purchase was almost painless. I emailed the new car manager and arranged a time for an extended, no-salesman test drive. The vehicle was waiting for me. After the test drive I said I would be in touch. Later that day I emailed an offer "all -in", there was a counter offer and a counter counter  and done. Drove to the dealership a few days leter, reviewed the sales sheet and wrote a cheque. At the dealer for no more than 15 minutes.

If they pulled any stunts I was ready to walk, since I hadn't invested any real time or energy it would have been no big deal. Always be ready to walk. Like John GenX.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2011, 06:23:55 pm »
My Uncle walked out of the Mercedes dealer because on his E420 they didnt include floormats plus they had a bunch of fees?!?!!?!? Really?!?! If youre buying some crap box Cavalier for $10g, ok, floormats, whatever, on an E Class Merc.....I dont bloody think so. The Nissan dealer where I bought my Altima from HATED me, I took their contract to 3 other dealers and saw who could beat it, I came in with another dealers offer and bluntly asked, " if you can include a rear spolier and a sunroof deflector, Ill take the car right now", he tried the whole talking to the manager spiel but came running after my dad and I when we were driving off :D I like car shopping and I really like screwing with the sales staff :D
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Offline 2latecrew

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2011, 07:05:55 pm »
I recently did all the purchase work on a Subaru for a friend. The same group owns both dealers within 100km of my location. The fees were not discussed during the price negotiation. They were printed on every bill of sale. Its the same on both locations. If they fees drive people away they will find the same fee at the other dealer.

People talk about OTR price and that's fine but its a common tactic to work from an offer sheet. Come to an agreement and then when you go to the FI office that the bill of sale "automatically" adds the admin fees along with taxes enviro fees etc. The Subaru dealer system was configured such that the auto admin fee line could not be remove. They had to add an additional 500 discount to the discount field on the  computer system to cancel it out.

That's how they get people. You've already spent an hour or more. you are spent and relived that its finally over. Then they throw the fee up and many don't have the energy left to fight it. Some people would walk. I would walk if they didn't remove it but if I did walk in order to buy my friend a Subaru  I would have to drive across town go though the entire process again and then still need to deal with getting them to waive the fee.

Once again the number of people who won't buy a new car or a used car from a dealer simply because of the process is more than outweighed by the revenue from the people who do buy cars and pay the fees.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2011, 07:12:52 pm »
Just because a business earns a profit does not mean it's well run or maximizing its potential.  We worked with lots of medium sized businesses ($10-15M gross rev) that succeeded in many ways in spite of themselves.

I didn't actively work in the electronics store I owned a piece of, but I'd pitch in at the front counter for some Saturdays leading up to Christmas, and I would encounter the occasional moron customer, but for the most part people were pretty cool to deal with.  Yeah, we'd have some outrageous freaks, but they were rare.

I know reading Cord's thread that dealerships have more (way more..?) than their share of morons, time wasters, and ridiculous freaks through their doors.  This is unfortunate for the sales staff (a post above comments about loving to screw with dealerships, so I suppose we see some of it right here...) but in many ways I think that the blame needs to be directed at the selling system that the auto industry has created.  And then they try everything to propagate the adversarial process with heinous sales tactics that sometimes break the law (evidently) but also make it so that well adjusted folks dread buying a new car.

Interesting about the Mayfield Toyota paperwork posted above.  We bought our Corolla from them, and found the process simple, straightforward, and the salesperson was genuine and great to deal with.  Their new-car process had no additional fees, no upselling of garbage (they had a brochure for factory extended warranties) and we completed the process quickly and painlessly.  In complete contrast, we literally raced off their used lot after meeting one of the most stereotypical and horrendous salespeople we'd seen in a long time.

Offline 2latecrew

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2011, 07:17:49 pm »
From what I've seen the major profit isn't in the actual sales of new cars. overheads are high, profit margins are low.

the money is on add ons, fees, accessories. used cars and most of all service. The margin on a new car is maybe 4 -5%. Margin on an admin fee? Basically infinity because they do nothing for it. Extended Warranty 100%

Sometimes I think they only sell cars because if they didn't they would have anything to warranty or service.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Business people seem to be morons, admin fees prove it.
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2011, 07:19:15 pm »
Come to an agreement and then when you go to the FI office that the bill of sale "automatically" adds the admin fees along with taxes enviro fees etc. The Subaru dealer system was configured such that the auto admin fee line could not be remove.

This was us.  The Subaru dealer added a huge admin fee after a price was agreed upon.  Then they babbled on about how all dealers do it, and it was mandatory, blah, blah, blah.  I just got up and left.  Yeah, we'd wasted my time, but they wasted theirs too.  The poor sales-guy missed a commission.  Man, I felt for the guy in many ways.

It's one reason we haven't replaced the Forester.  You can tell them upfront, but what's to stop them from adding it after the negotiation process is done?  Then you either have to re-start to work the fee out, pay it, or leave.  Stupid.  So, I just don't go in the first place.