Topic: Just can't get 'em balanced

[Blue01]

I just mounted a full set of Blizzaks with steel rims from Costco.  Bought them a few weeks ago and put them on last week.
Going down the side roads they felt great, nice quiet, smooth ride.  But as soon as I put her on the highway, the steering wheel started shaking, any where from 90 up to 110.  A little pressure on the steering wheel for a curve and the shake went away.
So I took it back to Costco and they gave her a full balance.  Well on the way home it's the same story.  Shake, shake, shake.  Back to Costco today, another balance and same old story again, more shaking.
Last winter it had a bad shake, the tires and wheels were 10 years old, so it was definitely time to replace them.
For a bit in the spring and then in the fall, car was parked for 6 months, I had summer tires and original rims on and she felt good on the highway so I know it's not a suspension problem.
How many times do I take it back, or should I take to a real tire store?  I'll try to get it in Sunday, but I'm not really sure how good these guys are. 
Or maybe it's those cheap, possibly Chinese rims!

[Railton]

I just mounted a full set of Blizzaks with steel rims from Costco.  Bought them a few weeks ago and put them on last week.
Going down the side roads they felt great, nice quiet, smooth ride.  But as soon as I put her on the highway, the steering wheel started shaking, any where from 90 up to 110.  A little pressure on the steering wheel for a curve and the shake went away.
So I took it back to Costco and they gave her a full balance.  Well on the way home it's the same story.  Shake, shake, shake.  Back to Costco today, another balance and same old story again, more shaking.
Last winter it had a bad shake, the tires and wheels were 10 years old, so it was definitely time to replace them.
For a bit in the spring and then in the fall, car was parked for 6 months, I had summer tires and original rims on and she felt good on the highway so I know it's not a suspension problem.
How many times do I take it back, or should I take to a real tire store?  I'll try to get it in Sunday, but I'm not really sure how good these guys are. 
Or maybe it's those cheap, possibly Chinese rims!

Look for a shop with a "road force" balancer. If they still shake after balancing on one fo those machines then something is seriously up with suspension.
Railton

[ktm525]

A steering wheel shake means it's one of the two front wheels. A shake you feel with your a$$ is a rear tire. I would swap the front to rear and see what happens.

Just so we have it staight:

1)Shake last year with old tires and wheels.
2)No shake with summer tires and wheels (I assume dif. wheels?)
3)Shake with new tires and what rime? The rims from the old tires (1)?

If this is correct I would really suspect the old wheels.

[Blue01]

A steering wheel shake means it's one of the two front wheels. A shake you feel with your a$$ is a rear tire. I would swap the front to rear and see what happens.

Just so we have it straight:

1)Shake last year with old tires and wheels.
2)No shake with summer tires and wheels (I assume dif. wheels?)
3)Shake with new tires and what rime? The rims from the old tires (1)?

If this is correct I would really suspect the old wheels.

1. Yup, old tires and wheels, 10 years old.  Wheels had a few dents and tires were separating!
2. Yup, no shake.  Bridgestone Potenzas with original Subaru wheels/mags.
3. Shake with new tires and new rims.  Shiney black ones, made in China.

[articsteve]

My money is on an out of round steel rim.  Not uncommon.  Problem is that you don't see it until after the tire is mounted and on the balancer.  It will balance up, but it will wobble ever so slightly.  Me thinks the Costco guys aren't to inclined to dismount the tire and redo the process on another rim providing they even know what to look for.

I think it maybe time to find a Hunter Road Force balancer as mentioned. 

[articsteve]

Also check for excess wheel weights on either side of the rims in question.

[capriracer]

One variable not yet mentioned:  Center hub.

If the steel wheels are one of those universal fit type wheels, then the center hole is is not piloting (centering) the wheel.  You could spend your lifetime trying to balance the problem away, and the problem is the wheel not being mounted concentrically.

[Angry Chicken]

One variable not yet mentioned:  Center hub.

If the steel wheels are one of those universal fit type wheels, then the center hole is is not piloting (centering) the wheel.  You could spend your lifetime trying to balance the problem away, and the problem is the wheel not being mounted concentrically.

I was just going to say the same thing!  The symptoms, especially the observation that shake goes away while cornering, are exactly what I have experienced with non hub-centric wheels.  In fact, I'll bet that even when you don't feel the vibration at certain speeds, the tires still feel a bit "nobbly" and nervous.   New wheels will make your problem go away.  Guaranteed.  Buy 'em from your Subaru dealer or at least from a reputable shop which can confirm hub-centricity.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I dunno. I've used non-hub centred wheels for the better part of the last 25 years without that issue. Obviously it is an issue for some people, but I've never experienced it. Even my last set of 16" wheels for the 2008 Outback had about a mm clearance around the hub centre. 

[Art]

The wheel stud openings in the wheel will also be concentric with the hub.  If the wheel is put on carefully by progressively tightening the nuts in sequence through a couple of cycles the holes will be lined up by the nuts.  If the nuts are tightened to full torque one at a time or if there is some weight on the wheel there is a very good chance the wheel will not be concentric with the hub, and the wheel assembly will not be round.

[X-Traction]

You can also get rust on the hub (or rim) that could prevent precise wheel mounting.  From what I've seen, garages don't bother to clean corrosion off the hub or rim.  After experiencing alloy wheels stuck on the hubs, I clean mine myself and coat the mating surfaces with a bit of brake grease.

There are bad tires that are manufactured poorly and cannot be balanced.  Sometimes tread has to be shaved off to come close. 

Though it doesn't sound like an issue in this case, you can get snow or dirt on the inner face of the rims that will throw off the balancing.  Some rims have a lip around the outer face where dirt can accumulate.

I avoided all this by buying a set of used alloy oem rims for the winter tires.  They were as cheap as steel rims, and I have no fitting issues.  And my vehicle doesn't look like a gangsta' car during the winter.

[Blue01]

Back from another balancing act at Costco and they tried again and admitted that they could not get it balanced.  They even put on different lug nuts hoping they would provide a better fit, then took it out for test drive.
Then I stopped in at the Subaru dealer and all he had were Subaru rims at 169 OMG dollars.  Even the guy there said he wouldn't pay that much.
So I'm thinking of putting the tires back on the original rims/mags, and looking around the wrecking yards for similar OEM rims.
Saylavee.

[ktm525]

Back from another balancing act at Costco and they tried again and admitted that they could not get it balanced.  They even put on different lug nuts hoping they would provide a better fit, then took it out for test drive.
Then I stopped in at the Subaru dealer and all he had were Subaru rims at 169 OMG dollars.  Even the guy there said he wouldn't pay that much.
So I'm thinking of putting the tires back on the original rims/mags, and looking around the wrecking yards for similar OEM rims.
Saylavee.

So the balance issue is from the wheel itself? Does the wheel balance without tire installed? Perhaps the wheel is out of round?

[rrocket]

Bad wheel IMO.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

So the balance issue is from the wheel itself? Does the wheel balance without tire installed? Perhaps the wheel is out of round?

When I used junkyard wheels, I'd get them spun up on a balancer just to verify if they were true or not. Every so ofter I'd come across a wonky one.

[ktm525]

So the balance issue is from the wheel itself? Does the wheel balance without tire installed? Perhaps the wheel is out of round?

When I used junkyard wheels, I'd get them spun up on a balancer just to verify if they were true or not. Every so ofter I'd come across a wonky one.

Not only true side to side but with respect to constant radius as well. I bet bad wheel too. For $50 steel wheels it probably isn't that rare.

[tortoise]

Could it also be an issue with the tire?  If we was able to balance another tire on that same rim you could isolate the issue.
 
Why are they letting you leave the store with an unbalanced tire/wheel?  You'd think they would have taken care of this before handing back your keys.

[rrocket]

Could it also be an issue with the tire?  If we was able to balance another tire on that same rim you could isolate the issue.
 
Why are they letting you leave the store with an unbalanced tire/wheel?  You'd think they would have taken care of this before handing back your keys.

Sure, it's possible.  A tire with a broken cord would cause endless headaches.

[articsteve]

So the balance issue is from the wheel itself? Does the wheel balance without tire installed? Perhaps the wheel is out of round?

Not uncommon.  But all 4 wheels    Highly unlikely.

Does the wheel balance without tire installed?

This is Costco, they provide a basic service.  I'm sure they don't bother to spin the steel rims.

[ktm525]

So the balance issue is from the wheel itself? Does the wheel balance without tire installed? Perhaps the wheel is out of round?

Not uncommon.  But all 4 wheels    Highly unlikely.

Does the wheel balance without tire installed?

This is Costco, they provide a basic service.  I'm sure they don't bother to spin the steel rims.

It wasn't clear if it is all the wheels. By the complaints it sounded like just one, perhaps two?