Topic: Performance winter vs snow/ice tires for Winnipeg

[Hal]

Hi all,

Buying winter tires for the first time and am in a dilemma about what type of tire to go with given the variety of road conditions we get - a performance winter that would be better for highway driving and when the roads are cleared (e.g. Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3) or a more dedicated snow/ice tire (e.g. Nokian Hakka R or Michelin X-Ice).

Any Winnipeggers or other Prairie folk care to chime in with your thoughts?

Thanks,
Hal

[Jaeger]

If I lived someplace where REAL winter happened, I'd forego the "performance" aspect of my winter rubber and put every dollar into staying out of the ditch.

Jaeger

[ktm525]

What type of car? With my old Volvo V70R I was glad to run a performance winter tire. While it did not have the absolute traction of a Q rated tire on storm days it was perfect for the other 95% of the days.

[CanuckG35]

If I lived someplace where REAL winter happened, I'd forego the "performance" aspect of my winter rubber and put every dollar into staying out of the ditch.

Jaeger

Agreed.

[Hal]

@Jaeger: I guess that's the crux of the matter - what does "real winter" actually mean? We probably had 5 or 6 snowstorms last year with any significant snowfall and the corresponding few days afterwards of driving on packed snow before the plows came around our neighborhood. Otherwise, my biggest concern was icy intersections and being able to navigate the ruts in the back lane. Highways were generally clear and there was only once when I saw a large number of vehicles in the ditch (right before the RCMP closed the road). Not sure which type of tire fits better with that range of conditions.

@ktm: '11 Audi A4

[Jaeger]

Compared to Toronto, Winterpeg gets the real deal.  Premium winter tires are designed to deal with a full range of winter driving conditions.  "Performance" winter tires compromise some of these abilities to deliver better / sportier dry road handling.  That's the type of tire I've purchased in the past for the "baby winter" experience we get around the GTA.  Were I in your shoes, I'd be shopping in the "premium winter" versus the "performance winter" category.  Just based on the consistently lower temps alone.

Your call though - obviously.

Jaeger

[tortoise]

Jaegar,  I don't think that Winipeg gets a lot of snow.  In fact, it gets less snow than the GTA.  And it won't have the snow slush combo where performance winters don't do well.  So, by that standard the GTA has the real witner.

If your A4 is AWD I'd be inclined to get performance winters.  I ran a set of H-Rated Kumho's for a few years and the one area they really suffered was getting going in deep snow.  Once underway traction and braking were acceptable. 

The other side is that some winter tires are better performers than their speed rating would suggest.  My X-Ices handled as well (or better ) than my H-Rated Kumhos.  Plus they had better traction and lasted longer.  That said, I bet the Pilot Alpin's are pretty solid.

[aquadorhj]

I'm pretty sure my current set of winters fall under "sports/performance" winter category.

it's Dunlop Wintersports M3(happy coincidence on the name,  ) tires.  

I've experienced Blizzak WS series, Continental Extreme winter contacts, and now Pirelli SottoZeros.

it seems to me that performance winter isn't really for snow/ice.  just dry cold tarmac....  it might be because i occasionally drive like a lunatic ,

snow and icy condition, my M3 just isn't able to maintain control unless i'm really slow.  
even on dry tarmac, I've lost traction when temp went under -15 just accelerating straight.

absurd size might have something to do with it (for winter tires), but my Dunlops really not confidence inspiring unless temp is relatively warm (over -10) and road is clear.....

[Jaeger]

Jaegar,  I don't think that Winipeg gets a lot of snow.  In fact, it gets less snow than the GTA....

As I said, I would lean toward premium winter rubber based on the consistently lower temps alone.  Unless I'm much mistaken, Winnipeg is a whole lot colder that Toronto on average.  aquadorhj's post above is illustrative of my point.

Jaeger

[davidy]

IMO, if handling is a big concern, get a T-rated winter tire like Continental ExtremeWinterContact or Hankook I*Pike W409.

Consumer Reports on Winter Tires in November 2009

Michelin XIce Xi2 by CR (detailed scores):
Snow traction: Excellent
Ice braking: Excellent
Dry braking: Poor
Wet braking: Fair
Handling: Fair
Hydroplaning: Fair
Ride comfort: Excellent
Noise: Very Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Very Good
Overall ranking: 1st

General Altimax Arctic by CR:
Snow traction: Excellent
Ice braking: Very Good
Dry braking: Poor
Wet braking: Very Good
Handling: Fair
Hydroplaning: Very Good
Ride comfort: Good
Noise: Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Fair
Overall ranking: 2nd

Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5 by CR:
Snow traction: Excellent
Ice braking: Very Good
Dry braking: Poor
Wet braking: Good
Handling: Fair
Hydroplaning: Very Good
Ride comfort: Good
Noise: Fair
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Excellent
Overall ranking: 3rd

Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Good
Dry braking: Good
Wet braking: Very Good
Handling: Good
Hydroplaning: Excellent
Ride comfort: Excellent
Noise: Very Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Very Good
Overall ranking: 4th

Nokian Hakkapeliitta R by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Very Good
Dry braking: Fair
Wet braking: Good
Handling: Good
Hydroplaning: Good
Ride comfort: Very Good
Noise: Very Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Very Good
Overall ranking: 5th

Continental ExtremeWinterContact by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Very Good
Dry braking: Good
Wet braking: Fair
Handling: Good
Hydroplaning: Fair
Ride comfort: Very Good
Noise: Very Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Good
Overall ranking: 6th

Bridgestone Blizzak WS60 by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Very Good
Dry braking: Fair
Wet braking: Fair
Handling: Good
Hydroplaning: Good
Ride comfort: Very Good
Noise: Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Good
Overall ranking: 7th

Pirelli Sottozero 210 Series II by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Fair
Dry braking: Fair
Wet braking: Very Good
Handling: Good
Hydroplaning: Excellent
Ride comfort: Good
Noise: Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Fair
Overall ranking: 8th

Dunlop Graspic DS2 by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Excellent
Dry braking: Poor
Wet braking: Fair
Handling: Poor
Hydroplaning: Good
Ride comfort: Very Good
Noise: Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Very Good
Overall ranking: 9th

Hankook I*Pike W409 by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Good
Dry braking: Poor
Wet braking: Good
Handling: Good
Hydroplaning: Excellent
Ride comfort: Very Good
Noise: Fair
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Good
Overall ranking: 10th

Gislaved NordFrost 5 by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Good
Dry braking: Good
Wet braking: Good
Handling: Fair
Hydroplaning: Good
Ride comfort: Very Good
Noise: Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Good
Overall ranking: 11th

Toyo Observe G02 Plus by CR:
Snow traction: Excellent
Ice braking: Very Good
Dry braking: Poor
Wet braking: Fair
Handling: Poor
Hydroplaning: Good
Ride comfort: Very Good
Noise: Poor
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Very Good
Overall ranking: 12th

Yokohama Ice Guard IG20 by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Very Good
Dry braking: Poor
Wet braking: Fair
Handling: Fair
Hydroplaning: Fair
Ride comfort: Very Good
Noise: Poor
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Very Good
Overall ranking: 13th

Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Good
Dry braking: Poor
Wet braking: Fair
Handling: Poor
Hydroplaning: Excellent
Ride comfort: Good
Noise: Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Fair
Overall ranking: 14th

Firestone Winterforce by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Good
Dry braking: Poor
Wet braking: Good
Handling: Poor
Hydroplaning: Excellent
Ride comfort: Very Good
Noise: Poor
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Fair
Overall ranking: 15th

Cooper Weather Master S/T2 by CR:
Snow traction: Very Good
Ice braking: Fair
Dry braking: Fair
Wet braking: Good
Handling: Fair
Hydroplaning: Excellent
Ride comfort: Good
Noise: Fair
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Poor
Overall ranking: 16th

Hankook IceBear W300 by CR:
Snow traction: Poor
Ice braking: Good
Dry braking: Fair
Wet braking: Very Good
Handling: Very Good
Hydroplaning: Very Good
Ride comfort: Good
Noise: Good
Rolling resistance (fuel consumption): Fair
Overall ranking: 17th

Dave

[Hal]

Thanks for the input, guys. After doing a quick search on reviews of the Pilot Alpins and some critical thinking about what kind of driving I actually do in winter and what is important to me, I think the dedicated snow/ice tires are a better fit for my needs. Now to decide between the various possibilities there! I am leaning towards the Nokian Hakka R's at this point.

Cheers,
Hal

[ktm525]

I would go either Michelin X-ice or Continental ExtremWinterContacts.

I wouldn't go Nokian unless you can get them outside of Kal Tire. They will bend you over for price.


Surprising that average snowfall is less than GTA.  Winnipeg does have this claim to fame however:

According to Environment Canada, Winnipeg is the coldest city in the world with a population of over 600,000 based on the average night-time temperature during December, January and February, inclusive.[5

[tortoise]

As I said, I would lean toward premium winter rubber based on the consistently lower temps alone.  Unless I'm much mistaken, Winnipeg is a whole lot colder that Toronto on average.  aquadorhj's post above is illustrative of my point.
Jaeger

In my experience the difference between performance and "premium" winters is greater in deep snow vs. lower temperatures.

I do think the X-Ice's will provide the best balance of handling and performance for your needs. 

[roundupready]

I wouldn't go Nokian unless you can get them outside of Kal Tire. They will bend you over for price.

True. I did.   

[ktm525]

I am not a fan of alloys for winters. The snow/ice/'sand mix (esp. in the Mountain parks) seems to pack up in and behind the spokes on the alloys and throw the wheel balance off. On certain cars a bit of buildup can be horrible. FWIW I could pack up a truck wheel and not notice, very vehicle dependant. For the Audi go steel and wheel cover.

[tortoise]

FWIW, I've had this happen with steelies and it was a GIANT pain in the ass to clear it because you had to reach around the wheel.  It would mean clean, turn wheel to opposite lock,  clean the other side.  At least with alloys you should be able to just push the snow through the spacing.

[ktm525]

FWIW, I've had this happen with steelies and it was a GIANT pain in the ass to clear it because you had to reach around the wheel.  It would mean clean, turn wheel to opposite lock,  clean the other side.  At least with alloys you should be able to just push the snow through the spacing.

This is true, but..... In BC and the mountain parks they use a salt/sand mixture. This mixture coats the inside of the wheels and then sets, like concrete. The only way to get this stuff off is high pressure wand wash and or scaping stick. Unfortunately these methods do not mix well with those little sticky fancy schmancy weights used to balance alloys.  Old school wheel rim weights FTW!

[HeliDriver]

Not disputing ktm's experience, but I ran OE alloys on the Civic for at least ten winters around Calgary and in the mountain parks and never had any balancing issues. I also had no problem last winter with the OE alloys on the GTI, and last winter was a snowy one.

The only time I had a winter balance issue was with the OE steelies on a Pathfinder, but that was after plowing through a way-too-deep snow bank at speed.

[ktm525]

Maybe I have just been unlucky with some weird combo of fresh snow and parks sanding equipment. The Volvo V70R wheels (cheapo Sport Editions) would pack up on most highway trips through BC. I thought it must have been some weird design issue specifically related to those wheels/car. Last year the G8 did the same thing (Elbrus wheels). Both cars were very sensitive to wheel balance issues. Never had a problem with the Rover or fleet of trucks before that.