Topic: VW Golf TDI mileage

[Zorro]

Hey guys,

I've heard that you can't (or at least difficult) to get the full benefits of the TDI if your daily commute is short. I believe the reasoning is that the engine doesn't have enough time to warm up. Now if let's say i do on average 20km/daily (15-20min drive) will i still be able to get ~800km/tank (500miles)?

I've been questioning a few forums, and kind of getting conflicting answers.

What do you guys think?

Thanks

[Gardiner Westbound]

The premium priced diesel engine option makes no financial sense for less than 35,000 kilometers per annum. Fuel is priced similar to regular grade gasoline. An expensive service regimen eats up fuel economy savings.

Contrary to urban legend car diesels are neither more reliable nor durable than their gasoline counterparts. Small diesel mechanics are scarce and parts expensive making service dealer dependent and generating jaw dropping bills.

Cold weather fuel conditioner is recommended to prevent diesel fuel from freezing and gelling. Diesels reach operating temperature slowly and have difficulty holding it prejudicing cabin heating, a severe problem in bumper to bumper winter traffic. A block heater and heated seats are essential.

[inco]

 

[Shnak]

The premium priced diesel engine option makes no financial sense for less than 35,000 kilometers per annum. Fuel is priced similar to regular grade gasoline. An expensive service regimen eats up fuel economy savings.

Contrary to urban legend car diesels are neither more reliable nor durable than their gasoline counterparts. Diesel mechanics are scarce and parts expensive making service dealer dependent and generating jaw dropping bills.

Cold weather fuel conditioner is recommended to prevent diesel fuel from freezing and gelling. Diesels reach operating temperature slowly and have difficulty holding it prejudicing cabin heating, a severe problem in bumper to bumper winter traffic. A block heater and heated seats are essential.

While most of that is true (the bit about cabin heating is apparently much better with the new TDI's), driving is a diesel is worth all these troubles. When I replaced my TDI with the Sportage a few years ago, my problem wasn't with the engine but with the manufacturer. I just flat out didn't trust that the Jetta would be reliable once its warranty had expired. So I jumped ship. If a manufacturer with a solid reliability reputation came out with a diesel option, I'd jump on it without thinking twice. Its benefits (torque, fuel economy) far outweigh the inconveniences (heat in cabin, block heater, etc.)

[Zorro]

Thanks guys for the info.

Now if the other car that is being considered, let's say the GTI is about the same cost, this would then negate the "extra" cost of purchasing a diesel. So now if both cars cost about the same, wich would one would you go for?

My objective is to find out if the diesel can get 50% more mileage than a GTI, while driving 600-700km/monthly.

[inco]

To Halifax with the TDI - the GTI is just going to be a ton more fun to drive.

In your situation, as you have described it, you really cannot benefit from a diesel. A GTI on the other hand will be much more enjoyable and rewarding for the driving experience.

[Shnak]

Thanks guys for the info.

Now if the other car that is being considered, let's say the GTI is about the same cost, this would then negate the "extra" cost of purchasing a diesel. So now if both cars cost about the same, wich would one would you go for?

My objective is to find out if the diesel can get 50% more mileage than a GTI, while driving 600-700km/monthly.

For the same price, or very close, I would take the GTI. The 2.0T is an excellent engine that delivers great fuel economy. For only 600-700km per month, there's no question that a diesel engine would be wasted in your case... that numbers needs to be at 2000+km per month for the better fuel economy of the diesel engine to start to matter.

[Zorro]

For the same price, or very close, I would take the GTI. The 2.0T is an excellent engine that delivers great fuel economy. For only 600-700km per month, there's no question that a diesel engine would be wasted in your case... that numbers needs to be at 2000+km per month for the better fuel economy of the diesel engine to start to matter.

That’s what I’m trying to figure out, is the fuel efficiency directly related to the amount of driving I do? If a GTI can net me 550km/tank and I drive 600km a month, then that means I’m filling up a little more than once a month, but if the diesel can get me 800km/tank than that means I’ll be filling every month and ½ .

Is my reasoning seem flawed? Do I need to drive 2000km/month in order to get ~7L/100km?

[tortoise]

Is my reasoning seem flawed?

Yes.  Why? You're completely ignoring this:

The premium priced diesel engine option makes no financial sense for less than 35,000 kilometers per annum.

You're only driving 7200 km a year.  At that amount don't worry so much about fuel efficiency and get the car you want to drive.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I've owned and love both engines. The GTI has the edge in the city big time (smoooth and quiet), but actually rather like the TDI on the highway. And the suspesion on the GTI is a little firm, though liveable. No doubt with the amount of driving you do I'd go for the GTI with the extra features (or even a Golf Sportline and save some cash), because that's far too few kms and the engine lives for longer commutes and drives at higher speed.

[Gardiner Westbound]

Is my reasoning seem flawed? Do I need to drive 2000km/month in order to get ~7L/100km?

You will undoubtedly achieve the stated diesel fuel mileage. However, it is insufficient compensation for the diesel engine's price premium and expensive service regimen. At your low annual mileage they more than negate the fuel savings.

[Zorro]

Thank you GW, that's the answer i was looking for.

I will be taking trips to MTL,Toronto/Oakville and even the maritimes, so it's not like the car won't be able to stretch its legs.

I appreciate all the help guys!!

[Zorro]

Is my reasoning seem flawed? Do I need to drive 2000km/month in order to get ~7L/100km?

You will undoubtedly achieve the stated diesel fuel mileage. However, it is insufficient compensation for the diesel engine's price premium and expensive service regimen. At your low annual mileage they more than negate the fuel savings.

While we're on the subject what extra regimen must be taken into acocunt for a diesel if let's say both cars are DSG?

[tpl]

Where is this expensive servicing on the TDI ( in a Golf)?   Assuming dealer services for the first 4 years under warranty.   Assuming also DSG which with Zorro's low mileage won't need a service in that time. 

The TDI will need a fuel filter I guess in that time. They'll both need new brake fluid and the super-duper low ash oil for the diesel is a bit more expensive than the 5w-40 synthetic for the GTI.

I make no argument against the fact that bigger diesels in NA are more expensive to service than the same sized gas engine but the 2.0TDI does not use Urea and all the fiddling that goes with it.

[Zorro]

I've owned and love both engines. The GTI has the edge in the city big time (smoooth and quiet), but actually rather like the TDI on the highway. And the suspesion on the GTI is a little firm, though liveable. No doubt with the amount of driving you do I'd go for the GTI with the extra features (or even a Golf Sportline and save some cash), because that's far too few kms and the engine lives for longer commutes and drives at higher speed.

In that sense i agree, yes the GTI has more features and is more upscale, but with the way the price of gas is going, and figuring that the GTI requires premium fuel...in a perfect world the GTD would be in my garage...but then again it would be fun to add those bits & pieces to a TDI that make the GTI so special.

[2latecrew]

With the amount of driving you are talking about doing a GTI might cost you what..an extra $200 a YEAR in GAS? Its possible that the  maintenance offsets some of that? Lets be real here the $ difference is nothing to bother with. Less than $20 a month. Go drive the 2 back to back and see if you think the GTI is worth an extra 20 dollars a month ..although your fuel consumption may ridse becuaase the GTI is so much fun 

[vdk]

Add $700 for a Stage 1 chip for the GTI. You won't regret it one bit, it will pull like a freight train.

[No H2O]

An expensive service regimen eats up fuel economy savings.

What might they be, GW.

I'd want one for the engine characteristics. It beats the usual 4 cylinder gas engine that needs to rev like a sewing machine to accomplish anything. I experience that daily.

[Gardiner Westbound]

An expensive service regimen eats up fuel economy savings.

What might they be, GW.

Living with a VW Jetta TDI: Weighing diesel fuel economy benefits against eventual maintenance costs - ConsumerReports.org, 2-15-2011

Look at the comments too.

http://goo.gl/I2Hfh

[quadzilla]

An expensive service regimen eats up fuel economy savings.

What might they be, GW.

"Living with a VW Jetta TDI: Weighing diesel fuel economy benefits against eventual maintenance costs"

consumerreports.org

http://goo.gl/I2Hfh

Did I miss the part where they talk about the extra costs for owning a diesel? All I saw was talk about the DSG tranny.