Author Topic: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?  (Read 2078 times)

Offline Ralph

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SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« on: August 01, 2011, 03:04:49 pm »
How does one choose between AWD and fuel efficiency when buying an SUV?  With all SUV's you lose between 2 to 5 mph when you go for AWD?  We live in Manitoba but winter in Texas so do we need AWD?  We don't have AWD on our car but is it more important to have it on an SUV since they aren't balanced the same as a car and are higher off the ground?  Thank you for your replies.

Offline airbalancer

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 03:22:24 pm »
is it more important to have it on an SUV since they aren't balanced the same as a car and are higher off the ground?
I would say no, more important to have snow/ winter tires
I am trading in a 4x4 pick up for a 2wd pick up, since 95% I do not use 4x4 , if the weather is that bad, I will bed down somewhere

Offline my2cents

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2011, 03:50:31 pm »
I didn't choose AWD for snow - I chose it for rain. Only another AWD can keep up at a traffic light on wet pavement.

I mentioned in another thread that since I drive 95% city - I compared city estimates and even small cars are within 2 mpg of the 4 cyl Rav 4.

But don't take this as a recommendation because I haven't had it very long. Also I'm a low mileage driver and gas isn't that important.

In fact if my destination has $5 - $14 parking - I'll take transit.

Offline X-Traction

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 12:06:42 am »
Hard to say.  If you wintered in Winnipeg, AWD certainly would not be a waste.  It sounds like you don't have much need for AWD, or snow tires for that matter.  It also sounds like you do a lot of mileage, which biases the choice toward not having AWD.

Most small suv's are normally fwd and engage the back wheels when they detect slippage of the front drive wheels. The positive aspect of this is just what it does, the negative aspect is that you basically have to lose control to some extent before the AWD engages.  And I have never seen an explanation of how the system knows to revert to fwd.

Usually these systems allow you to lock them in 4wd.  IF this configuration is truly AWD with some slippage allowed in the system, then great.  You can just shift them into 4wd/AWD when you want.  Best of both worlds and all that.  But, if "locking" means a non-slipping connection between front and back end, you can't use it locked on bare dry pavement.  On bare roads with patches of ice or snow, this is kind of useless.  And on corners at highway speeds on slippery surfaces you will be more likely to slide wheels and lose control than in 2wd alone.

The Grand Vitara and Forester normally are always in AWD.  Yes, this costs some mileage.  I look at it this way:  AWD is fundamentally more sure-footed than any other configuration.  Besides snowy/icy roads, this also means much better control on gravel, sand and wet roads.  At some point, this has to translate into fewer accidents, which, to stretch the point, amounts to an effective dollar savings because of fewer wrecked cars to fix or replace.  And energy(=fuel) savings also.  Not to mention personal injury.

If mileage remains a concern, something like the X-Trail, unfortunately no longer sold in Canada, would be a good choice.  Normally fwd with slip&grip, also configurable to AWD, and locked 4x4 modes.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 12:09:46 am by X-Traction »

Offline johngenx

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 01:20:29 am »
One reason for the loss of fuel economy comes from the extra weight of the AWD components, compared to a FWD version of the same vehicle.

Also, even in a slip/grip AWD model, the disconnect typically happens at the transmission, meaning the drive shafts and other stuff is still spinning, causing parasitic loss on the rear wheels.

I prefer the always an AWD system, as it definitely adds to the driving experience even on dry pavement.
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Offline Shnak

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 07:21:44 am »
If you're worried about fuel efficiency, you shouldn't buy a SUV/CUV in the first place... they're all much worse than their compact car equivalent. And if you get a SUV/CUV, it has to be AWD, IMO.

Offline airbalancer

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 07:25:29 am »
If you're worried about fuel efficiency, you shouldn't buy a SUV/CUV in the first place... they're all much worse than their compact car equivalent. And if you get a SUV/CUV, it has to be AWD, IMO.

With OP other post about his wife have a harder time getting into lower seating car a CUV/SUV may be the best choice

Look into a RX450H, or maybe an hybrid Escape

Offline Shnak

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 07:40:28 am »
If you're worried about fuel efficiency, you shouldn't buy a SUV/CUV in the first place... they're all much worse than their compact car equivalent. And if you get a SUV/CUV, it has to be AWD, IMO.

With OP other post about his wife have a harder time getting into lower seating car a CUV/SUV may be the best choice

Look into a RX450H, or maybe an hybrid Escape

Sure, CUV/SUV might be the best choice, but I wouldn't buy one without AWD... with their taller center of gravity and quickly shifting weight, traction on its wheels isn't optimal... being AWD alleviates some of these problems. Besides, there are plenty of tall cars that could help his wife... Matrix, Rondo, Mazda5, etc, to name a few. All perfectly fine cars with higher seating than normal.

Offline safristi

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 10:35:56 am »
Ralph...if yer Wintering in TEXAS...ya needs a BIG ARSE TRUCK.......SRT8 territory........... ;D...and a LASOO 'n chaps..fer the LINE DANCIN' DUDE........if'n yer transportin' illegals add a cooled cab O'vr...... :stick: :cp2: :pimp: >:D...........
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline Trainman

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 04:23:22 pm »
There is a bit of a fallacy that full time AWD (like the Subaru Forester) gets worse fuel economy than the slip'n grip systems like the CR-V and RAV4.  Consumer Reports, in their (supposedly "real world") testing, show the Forester gets as good (or better with the 5 speed manual) than the other systems. 

But for good fuel economy, you will need to consider options other than a SUV/CUV.  For example, with good driving techniques, our Sienna gets as good fuel economy as the Forester on the highway, and is decent in our winters (with good snow tires of course!).  And it is very easy to get in/out of as well.  And more roomy, more comfortable, etc.

So do not get too hung up on AWD, I have the Forester for work reasons, while the Sienna gets used the most for trips (although that is changing as we get back into camping/canoeing and need to travel rather rough roads that the Sienna would not handle.
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Offline aaronk

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 04:55:13 pm »
AWD is an unnecessary but advantageous 'extra'. Do you need it? No. Is it nice to have on a slippery, snow covered hill in January or if you're trying to man up and beat other cars at a set of lights in bad conditions? Yes. As with many other things, it boils down to your driving style and priorities. As a family we bought a new Santa Fe last year and specifically chose the model without AWD for a few reasons. First off, it was a $2000 option at the time. Secondly, we knew mileage would be poorer equipped with AWD, and for the amount of times we would use it there really wasn't much to debate. We have thoroughly enjoyed the vehicle for a year, and my only complaint is that there is some torque steer when goosing the gas, which may be tempered by a slip-and-grip AWD system. If someone tells you that you must have AWD/4x4 in a CUV/SUV they have bought into the marketing hook, line and sinker. It's completely up to your preference and driving style, and like I said we have found our 2WD to perform well.

As a side note, I'm thinking something like a Subaru Legacy might be a good fit. A bit taller than your average sedan, AWD grip but still gets good mileage. Affordable, too!

Offline airbalancer

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 05:00:26 pm »
How did we survive all those years with rwd cars and trucks
I think 4x4/awd did not really become popular until the mid 90s

Offline johngenx

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 05:14:47 pm »
How did we survive all those years with rwd cars and trucks
I think 4x4/awd did not really become popular until the mid 90s

Popular, perhaps, but 4WD was certainly required in many places long before then.  In the Yukon, we accessed lots of "roads" that not only required high clearance and 4x4, but a winch, long cables, and block and tackle.

Even in so-called "civilized" places along the Icefields Parkway (runs between Lake Louise and Jasper in the national parks) we have come out to a trailhead parking lot after many, many cms of snow fell and the only ones that can get out of the parking lot are AWD/4WD vehicles (and only those on snow tires or carrying chains)  Many times on that highway, even as late as May, my Subaru has struggled up Sunwapta Pass on its snow tires, barely making the hill while every FWD/RWD vehicle turns back.

Near Rossland BC a couple winters ago, we headed over Polson Pass after a 40cm/day storm.  Plowing?  Wow, the lack of road work was surprising.  Again, only AWD or 4WD vehicles on snow tires were going over the pass that day.  Semis with chains on were jackknifed on the steeper curves, adding greatly to the excitement!

That said, my missus' Corolla, on WS-60 Blizzaks, copes with pretty much everything an urban winter environment can throw at it.  But, no way I'd take it many of the places I take the Forester in the winter.  (And some summer "roads" too)

Offline airbalancer

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 05:33:40 pm »
Yes there are area where you really need awd
In Thunder Bay in the early '80's very few people had 4x4/awd drive, most had rwd with a couple of sand bags in the trunk and we did just fine
Most 4x4 were Jeeps, Scouts, and Bronco
It was really with the Jimmy and Blazer ( atleast around Toronto jobs sites)  getting auto AWD, then it was the Cherokee for boss on driving to the job site

Offline Snowman

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 05:39:12 pm »
Once you drive AWD in all seasons you will never go back. AWD is very forgiving when you drive beyond your abilities by mistake or design.

Offline tpl

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2011, 05:44:30 pm »
Once you drive AWD in all seasons you will never go back. AWD is very forgiving when you drive beyond your abilities by mistake or design.

I agree. You have Subarus, I had a A4 Quattro with a Torsen centre diff and a BMW with the fixed 32/68% f/r but still true AWD all the time for all that.  Forgiving is the right word I think.   
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Offline Trainman

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2011, 05:54:24 pm »
Agreed that AWD/4WD has its place but the OP is talking about winters in Texas, not the Yukon or Thunder Bay  :D

The debate on if/when/what for AWD can be never ending (and rather fun to discuss too); hopefully we can provide decent info to the OP to help him make a choice for his use.

Offline Minou

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2011, 08:58:41 pm »
AWD is an unnecessary but advantageous 'extra'. Do you need it? No. Is it nice to have on a slippery, snow covered hill in January or if you're trying to man up and beat other cars at a set of lights in bad conditions? Yes. As with many other things, it boils down to your driving style and priorities. As a family we bought a new Santa Fe last year and specifically chose the model without AWD for a few reasons. First off, it was a $2000 option at the time. Secondly, we knew mileage would be poorer equipped with AWD, and for the amount of times we would use it there really wasn't much to debate. We have thoroughly enjoyed the vehicle for a year, and my only complaint is that there is some torque steer when goosing the gas, which may be tempered by a slip-and-grip AWD system. If someone tells you that you must have AWD/4x4 in a CUV/SUV they have bought into the marketing hook, line and sinker. It's completely up to your preference and driving style, and like I said we have found our 2WD to perform well.

X2

With 26000 km on mine, including a nasty Montreal winter with 4 good winter tires and 2 trips to Florida, I would'nt trade it for an AWD.
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Offline Ralph

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2011, 09:19:53 am »
Thank you everyone for your very informative comments.  We are now leaning towards a front wheel drive.  Our current vehicle of 9 years (Honda Accord) is front wheel drive and we never had an issue with it even using all seasonals and driving a couple of winter months in Manitoba with it.  Thank you again. 

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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Re: SUV - choosing between AWD or fuel efficiency?
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2011, 11:25:30 am »
How did we survive all those years with rwd cars and trucks
I think 4x4/awd did not really become popular until the mid 90s

Popular, perhaps, but 4WD was certainly required in many places long before then.  In the Yukon, we accessed lots of "roads" that not only required high clearance and 4x4, but a winch, long cables, and block and tackle.

Even in so-called "civilized" places along the Icefields Parkway (runs between Lake Louise and Jasper in the national parks) we have come out to a trailhead parking lot after many, many cms of snow fell and the only ones that can get out of the parking lot are AWD/4WD vehicles (and only those on snow tires or carrying chains)  Many times on that highway, even as late as May, my Subaru has struggled up Sunwapta Pass on its snow tires, barely making the hill while every FWD/RWD vehicle turns back.

Near Rossland BC a couple winters ago, we headed over Polson Pass after a 40cm/day storm.  Plowing?  Wow, the lack of road work was surprising.  Again, only AWD or 4WD vehicles on snow tires were going over the pass that day.  Semis with chains on were jackknifed on the steeper curves, adding greatly to the excitement!

That said, my missus' Corolla, on WS-60 Blizzaks, copes with pretty much everything an urban winter environment can throw at it.  But, no way I'd take it many of the places I take the Forester in the winter.  (And some summer "roads" too)

Sounds like you could use a Power Wagon