Topic: First Drive: 2012 Hyundai Genesis

[Bullet Blue]

It's always going to be a tough sell when you see one Genesis on the dealer lot surrounded by acres of Accents and Elantras.

What's the difference between that and selling $50k+ Cadillacs in a sea of Aveos?

The difference is those are two seperate brands. I think Hyundai would be well advised to consider making Genesis its premium brand.

[Shnak]

It's always going to be a tough sell when you see one Genesis on the dealer lot surrounded by acres of Accents and Elantras.

What's the difference between that and selling $50k+ Cadillacs in a sea of Aveos?

The difference is those are two seperate brands. I think Hyundai would be well advised to consider making Genesis its premium brand.

Sure, but we're talking about dealerships and the other cars they sell. What's the difference between selling a Hyundai Genesis when the lot is full of Hyundai Accents and Hyundai Elantras, and selling a Genesis Sedan/Coupe/SUV/Equus when the lot is full of Hyundai Accents and Hyundai Elantras? The brand itself doesn't mean much if it's sold in the same dealership...

[dirtyjeffer]

The difference is those are two seperate brands. I think Hyundai would be well advised to consider making Genesis its premium brand.

while it is possible Hyundai may bend to pressure to do so, i doubt they will, for a couple of reasons...their existing line-up is already well received, so spending $1 Billion+ on a "premium brand" does very little in terms of ROI...let's say they come out with a premium name...the car is the same...instead of the Hyundai Genesis, it is the Proton Genesis (or whatever name they pick)...for starters, anyone buying a premium vehicle for its content and value, is already going to be attracted to the Genesis as it is...those who purchase because of the name on the grill won't get the Hyundai or the Proton anyway, so they won't pick up those customers regardless of what they do...i think Hyundai's current strategy, at least for now, is best...their sales for those two models aren't currently high enough to justify an entirely exclusive name and showroom.

[Erik]

The difference is those are two seperate brands. I think Hyundai would be well advised to consider making Genesis its premium brand.

while it is possible Hyundai may bend to pressure to do so, i doubt they will, for a couple of reasons...their existing line-up is already well received, so spending $1 Billion+ on a "premium brand" does very little in terms of ROI...let's say they come out with a premium name...the car is the same...instead of the Hyundai Genesis, it is the Proton Genesis (or whatever name they pick)...for starters, anyone buying a premium vehicle for its content and value, is already going to be attracted to the Genesis as it is...those who purchase because of the name on the grill won't get the Hyundai or the Proton anyway, so they won't pick up those customers regardless of what they do...i think Hyundai's current strategy, at least for now, is best...their sales for those two models aren't currently high enough to justify an entirely exclusive name and showroom.

Nah, I think that the reason they aren't selling is because of the lack of a separate brand and sales experience. Say what you will, but Hyundai is known as, and made it's success by being, a very Wal-Mart type of auto purchasing experience. That being, they sold the products people need at a good price. Seeing the great success they have achieved, both Hyundai and Wal-Mart, it is hard to argue with this path.
However, luxury cars are totally unneeded, aspirational choices. They are totally not about what you need but what you want. And, what your choice says about you to your friends, neighbors, coworkers, clients etc.
Just as there is basically nothing you need to buy in clothing from Harry Rosen, let's say, that you can't get from Wal Mart, one is the aspirational choice, while the other is the practical. There is very little you can do from a practical way in a Genesis sedan that you could not do with a Sonata.

[Bullet Blue]

It's always going to be a tough sell when you see one Genesis on the dealer lot surrounded by acres of Accents and Elantras.

What's the difference between that and selling $50k+ Cadillacs in a sea of Aveos?

The difference is those are two seperate brands. I think Hyundai would be well advised to consider making Genesis its premium brand.

Sure, but we're talking about dealerships and the other cars they sell. What's the difference between selling a Hyundai Genesis when the lot is full of Hyundai Accents and Hyundai Elantras, and selling a Genesis Sedan/Coupe/SUV/Equus when the lot is full of Hyundai Accents and Hyundai Elantras? The brand itself doesn't mean much if it's sold in the same dealership...

My personal opinion is that brand doesn't matter at all. You could rename the Gensis as an Accent and I'd still call it a decent car. But most people don't think that way. Brand is everything to them. So the idea of paying a premium price for a badge that is generally not considered to be premium is going to be an issue for most people. It's all about perception, which is stupid, but an unfortunate reality.

The difference is those are two seperate brands. I think Hyundai would be well advised to consider making Genesis its premium brand.

while it is possible Hyundai may bend to pressure to do so, i doubt they will, for a couple of reasons...their existing line-up is already well received, so spending $1 Billion+ on a "premium brand" does very little in terms of ROI...let's say they come out with a premium name...the car is the same...instead of the Hyundai Genesis, it is the Proton Genesis (or whatever name they pick)...for starters, anyone buying a premium vehicle for its content and value, is already going to be attracted to the Genesis as it is...those who purchase because of the name on the grill won't get the Hyundai or the Proton anyway, so they won't pick up those customers regardless of what they do...i think Hyundai's current strategy, at least for now, is best...their sales for those two models aren't currently high enough to justify an entirely exclusive name and showroom.

Good points, but perhaps the reason why those two models aren't currently selling high enough is due to the lack of a premium brand. Volkswagen tried to mix premium with non-premium in the form of the Phaeton and it did not go over so well. While $1 billion for a premium nameplate is a lot, it may be well worth it down the road if Hyundai wishes to go further with premium models, say a 3-series fighter.

[dirtyjeffer]

They are totally not about what you need but what you want. And, what your choice says about you to your friends, neighbors, coworkers, clients etc.
Just as there is basically nothing you need to buy in clothing from Harry Rosen, let's say, that you can't get from Wal Mart, one is the aspirational choice, while the other is the practical. There is very little you can do from a practical way in a Genesis sedan that you could not do with a Sonata.

exactly why a "premium brand" for Hyundai is unnecessary...if someone is "brand conscious", they aren't going to buy a Genesis, whether it is called the Hyundai Genesis or the Proton Genesis...i think Hyundai is going after the people who appreciate a premium car, without the premium price of the brand...so, if you want a really nice car, and don't care about the MB, BMW or Audi symbol on the hood, get the Genesis...if you do care about that, you won't be buying the Genesis regardless of what name precedes the model name or whether it is sold in its own respective dealership anyway...could customer perception change in the future??...sure, but i don't think such a move now is worth it.

[kenm]

They are totally not about what you need but what you want. And, what your choice says about you to your friends, neighbors, coworkers, clients etc.
Just as there is basically nothing you need to buy in clothing from Harry Rosen, let's say, that you can't get from Wal Mart, one is the aspirational choice, while the other is the practical. There is very little you can do from a practical way in a Genesis sedan that you could not do with a Sonata.

exactly why a "premium brand" for Hyundai is unnecessary...if someone is "brand conscious", they aren't going to buy a Genesis, whether it is called the Hyundai Genesis or the Proton Genesis...i think Hyundai is going after the people who appreciate a premium car, without the premium price of the brand...so, if you want a really nice car, and don't care about the MB, BMW or Audi symbol on the hood, get the Genesis...if you do care about that, you won't be buying the Genesis regardless of what name precedes the model name or whether it is sold in its own respective dealership anyway...could customer perception change in the future??...sure, but i don't think such a move now is worth it.

This is exactly right. The kind of brand snobs we're talking about here won't be fooled by a badge swap. Once upon a time, a well heeled individual was the majority shareholder of the company that I worked for. His rides always featured the 3 pointed star on the nose. When M-B introduced the 190E in the early 80's, he swore he would never buy another one. He said, "now anybody can own one". You wouldn't get this guy anywhere near a Lexus dealership, no matter how good they are. For brand snobs, it's not just about the badge and the opulence of the dealership; it's also about "who else is driving them". A former boss of mine got rid of his Camry before the lease was up, because, "it's an old mans' car". He said that every time he saw another one, there was grey hair behind the wheel. Does anyone remember the long time stigma that was attached to Camaros? Even some people that liked them, got rid of them when gold chains became a Camaro fashion accessory.

In my neck of the woods, I don't see a lot of differentiation between Acuras and Hondas. You will always find used Acuras on the Honda lots. People jump back and forth between Honda and Acura without a second thought.

50k for a vehicle is not that far of a reach for a lot of people, judging by the number of full-size, full-load pick-ups I see on the road ever day. The Genesis has a potential market that far exceeds the "badge snob" crowd. I'm talking about people who wouldn't get any nearer to a premium German car than a Sunday morning cruise through the BMW lot. Get them into a Hyundai dealer, get their ass in the seat of a Genesis, introduce them to the financing, and you're halfway to a sale. Moving the Genesis to a separate brand and dealership, might be more loss than gain.

[Erik]

They are totally not about what you need but what you want. And, what your choice says about you to your friends, neighbors, coworkers, clients etc.
Just as there is basically nothing you need to buy in clothing from Harry Rosen, let's say, that you can't get from Wal Mart, one is the aspirational choice, while the other is the practical. There is very little you can do from a practical way in a Genesis sedan that you could not do with a Sonata.

exactly why a "premium brand" for Hyundai is unnecessary...if someone is "brand conscious", they aren't going to buy a Genesis, whether it is called the Hyundai Genesis or the Proton Genesis...i think Hyundai is going after the people who appreciate a premium car, without the premium price of the brand...so, if you want a really nice car, and don't care about the MB, BMW or Audi symbol on the hood, get the Genesis...if you do care about that, you won't be buying the Genesis regardless of what name precedes the model name or whether it is sold in its own respective dealership anyway...could customer perception change in the future??...sure, but i don't think such a move now is worth it.

This is exactly right. The kind of brand snobs we're talking about here won't be fooled by a badge swap. Once upon a time, a well heeled individual was the majority shareholder of the company that I worked for. His rides always featured the 3 pointed star on the nose. When M-B introduced the 190E in the early 80's, he swore he would never buy another one. He said, "now anybody can own one". You wouldn't get this guy anywhere near a Lexus dealership, no matter how good they are. For brand snobs, it's not just about the badge and the opulence of the dealership; it's also about "who else is driving them". A former boss of mine got rid of his Camry before the lease was up, because, "it's an old mans' car". He said that every time he saw another one, there was grey hair behind the wheel. Does anyone remember the long time stigma that was attached to Camaros? Even some people that liked them, got rid of them when gold chains became a Camaro fashion accessory.

In my neck of the woods, I don't see a lot of differentiation between Acuras and Hondas. You will always find used Acuras on the Honda lots. People jump back and forth between Honda and Acura without a second thought.

50k for a vehicle is not that far of a reach for a lot of people, judging by the number of full-size, full-load pick-ups I see on the road ever day. The Genesis has a potential market that far exceeds the "badge snob" crowd. I'm talking about people who wouldn't get any nearer to a premium German car than a Sunday morning cruise through the BMW lot. Get them into a Hyundai dealer, get their ass in the seat of a Genesis, introduce them to the financing, and you're halfway to a sale. Moving the Genesis to a separate brand and dealership, might be more loss than gain.

Now we are talking incredible extremes. The vast majority of BMW and MB customers buy them simply because they are MB's and BMW's. Same with Lincoln, Cadillac and Lexus. The ES series Lexus has never been anything more than a fancy Camry, but Lexus sells tons of them. As much as some like to hold their noses up at the "brand snobs", I can't think of one successful luxury car that has grown from a standard line. VW tried it with the brilliant Phaeton, and it was a failure. The Genesis was until recently the best large car in it's class, yet it was not selling well. It has never hit the type of numbers that Hyundai predicted for it. They are losing lots already, so why not try it?

[Jaeger]

50k for a vehicle is not that far of a reach for a lot of people, judging by the number of full-size, full-load pick-ups I see on the road ever day. The Genesis has a potential market that far exceeds the "badge snob" crowd. I'm talking about people who wouldn't get any nearer to a premium German car than a Sunday morning cruise through the BMW lot. Get them into a Hyundai dealer, get their ass in the seat of a Genesis, introduce them to the financing, and you're halfway to a sale. Moving the Genesis to a separate brand and dealership, might be more loss than gain.

Agreed.

Jaeger

[dirtyjeffer]

The Genesis was until recently the best large car in it's class, yet it was not selling well. It has never hit the type of numbers that Hyundai predicted for it. They are losing lots already, so why not try it?

it likely has more to do with the people that buy that car, than the car or brand itself...my FIL would have been a perfect fit for a Genesis, but he wouldn't even go look at one...he's owned Ford and GM over the years, and simply wouldn't buy an import, regardless of how good it is...instead, they bought a Taurus, which they are very happy with, but i still think "shopping around" would have been good...most of the people who purchase that type of car, are generally a bit older, have the disposable income (or the ability to afford the payments on a $50k car), and may not be interested in some "Korean brand" they are not familiar with...this is despite the fact he is close to trading in his 5 year old Cadillac "dream" car he bought in 2007 (SRX) due to the numerous issues he had with it (and it was $60K!)...he is looking at going with a new Malibu instead...regardless of why i say (in terms of suggestions to look around at), he won't...about 90% of the vehicles he has purchased in the last 40 years have been GMs, and that's just the way he does things...it has nothing to do with how good or bad the Genesis is, how good or bad the dealership is, he simply refuses to buy anything but a GM, because he feels they "take care of him"...which they do, considering they are giving him a trade-in value of $12k for his 5 year old Caddy which cost him $60k in 2007. 

[safristi]

  "A F.I.L and his money are soon parted" .....hope wifey keeps to her own drummer.......

[Spec5]

I think once more of the general public keep getting blasted with how well/far Hyundai has come they'll have no problems selling premium vehicles. While informally polling people I work with etc there's ever more that are starting to take Hyundai seriously - and why not?! They're reliable, inexpensive (typically) and have a the best warranty in the business.

I realize the "trend" is to open separate dealerships for premium brands but like many have posted here - GM does it, Ford does it even Audi shares dealerships with VW. I just think that separating the dealership experience based on the amount of money is absolutely ludicrous. I mean get over yourself. Who cares if your vehicle is serviced in the same bay as a $20k whatever?! I like Hyundai's approach with the Equus - let them pick it up and return it! How much easier does servicing your vehicle get than that!? As far as the argument about offering "premium service" - I'd argue that all service should be pleasant and prompt. If I knew that my employees were offering sh*ttier service to someone with an Accent just because it was an accent vs. someone who buys a Genesis or Equus I'd fire his/her @ss! Just be polite and friendly to everyone! Just like me!

On a note unrelated to this article - ran to the bank night before last at dusk and saw this sick looking car roll by - thought it was a newer Jag or something but decided I had to find out what it was. Sweet looking from the front and really nice side profile - tail lights were gorgeous. The angle the light was hitting the car I couldn't make out the badge (buddy in the cadillac behind him with HIDs didn't help either). Finally he stops at a red light and I'm able to make out the badges - Kia Optima SX.... If you haven't seen one in the flesh yet and are in the mid size sedan market - you NEED to check out this car. WAAAAY hotter than the new Sonata and I used to love that car!

[sacrat]

The company has already gone back to the drawing board, and the Genesis emerges with some substantial refreshing for 2012. The interior is essentially untouched, and exterior styling changes are more evolutionary than extreme.

Sorry to nitpick, but "back to the drawing board" is not the right term to describe an evolutionary refreshing.
From Wikipedia:

 "The expression "back to the drawing board" is used when a plan or course of action is unsuccessful and needs to be changed, often drastically; e.g., "The battle plan, the result of months of conferences, failed because the enemy retreated too far back. It was back to the drawing board for the army captains."
The phrase was coined in the caption to a Peter Arno cartoon of The New Yorker of March 1, 1941"

[dirtyjeffer]

to further your point, prior to the invention of the drawing board, where did we go back to when things didn't work out? 

[sacrat]

to further your point, prior to the invention of the drawing board, where did we go back to when things didn't work out? 

Back to the cave drawings ?!