Author Topic: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?  (Read 1639 times)

Offline articsteve

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GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« on: May 26, 2011, 01:58:18 am »
Tony Van Alphen
BUSINESS REPORTER

Union leaders fear up to 2,000 jobs will be lost at General Motors of Canada after the automaker’s parent confirmed it will move production of the popular Chevrolet Impala sedan from Oshawa to the U.S.

GM said it will start building the next-generation Malibu sedan and Impala at its Detroit-Hamtramck plant in late 2012 or early 2013, adding another 2,500 jobs to that plant while phasing out the Impala model and a production line in Oshawa.

Canadian Auto Workers officials said GM’s decision to partially shift Impala production south suggests the company is now intent on proceeding with a previous plan to close one of two assembly lines in Oshawa.

That could slash the current workforce of 4,200 workers on two lines to about 2,200 in one flexible manufacturing operation within the next few years, they said, adding the move could also adversely affect parts suppliers.

GM employed almost 10,000 workers at three plants in Oshawa five years ago, before a major restructuring saved the company from collapse.

GM’s announcement sparked anxiety among Oshawa workers, who have already faced considerable uncertainty because of the company’s financial troubles in recent years.

But Tony LaRocca, communications director at GM of Canada, said it is too early to speculate on the impact of the Impala decision on Oshawa operations.

GM noted in a “confidential” memo to managers earlier in the day that there may be a need for some Impala output in Oshawa, but on the flex line rather than the older consolidated operation where production now occurs. That would boost employment on the flex line by a few hundred but not make up for losses on the consolidated line.

GM made a commitment to the union in 2008 for future products in Oshawa, including the Impala 2013, but the company’s announcement appears to suggest an emphasis on primary production in the U.S.

GM informed the union more than a year ago about plans to close the consolidated line at the end of its “current product lifecycles” because it is no longer efficient enough. But the union has continued to press GM for new models to boost productivity and save jobs.

Buckley said he thinks volume projections for the Chevrolet Volt electric car, future Malibu and Impala at the Detroit-Hamtramck plant should force the company to keep the consolidated line open for some output of the Impala, which remains one of the most popular family sedans in the U.S.

He rejected GM’s position that the consolidated line is no longer efficient, pointing to its overhaul last year to accommodate increased production of the hot-selling Chevrolet Equinox crossover vehicle early and below budget.

In the memo to managers, GM revealed it has not disclosed more products in Oshawa because of the failure to complete a new health care trust with retirees. The formation of a trust to reduce costs was a critical component of the deal between GM, the union and government so the company could qualify for billions of dollars in taxpayers’ aid in 2009.

“ … The finalization of the Health Care Trust which is a key element of our restructuring has not yet been fulfilled,” said the memo to managers, obtained by The Star. “Therefore, we are not making any announcements regarding our Canadian operations today … GM Canada is working with retirees and their legal counsel to finalize the Health Care Trust as soon as possible.”

Buckley said the memo is “aggressive and threatening” to workers in an attempt by GM to put pressure on the union to resolve the trust issue before the automaker confirms new products. Only retirees and their steering committee can reach an agreement with the company, he added.

“Frankly, we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency,”     Billions for jets and pennies for vets; Harponi is MAGNIFICENT.

Offline Gardiner Westbound

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2011, 05:39:37 am »
Seems GM is playing hardball with the CAW which, in its usual boneheaded fashion, is determined to have the auto industry's highest paid unemployed workers.

Mr. Lewenza, your world has changed. You can't bully private sector employers anymore. They'll pack up their stuff and go home. Get over it!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 07:02:38 am by Gardiner Westbound »
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Offline No H2O

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2011, 08:58:17 am »
Seems GM is playing hardball with the CAW which, in its usual boneheaded fashion, is determined to have the auto industry's highest paid unemployed workers.

Yeah what do they make on a standard work week of ??? hours?

I always heard some rediculous amount...for spinning a wrench.  ::)
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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2011, 09:06:38 am »
Yes, they're shafting Canada by not keeping excess production capacity open unnecessarily and paying CAW rates and benefits for workers to sit around.

The best way to ensure those jobs stay in Oshawa is for Canadians to wake up and start buying products made here instead of across the Pacific Ocean. Can't have it both ways.

Offline Juke1

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2011, 09:13:43 am »
Seems to me like a company running it's business, that's all, "don't want to play nice well here is what we can do.....".  Toyota has not had a recall in 2 weeks, so let's start bashing GM, and Chrysler and whatever else. ::)
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Offline inco

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2011, 11:11:05 am »
I have to wonder how much effect the rise of the Canadian dollar is having on some of these decisions. Sure GM uses the Health Trust as the olive branch here, but that may not be the only factor.

The door is opening and before the year is out it will be 'depressing' to see how many other companies will head for it. That is unless the government is willing to step in and offer incentives again, which is short term, but maybe what might be needed until the dollar dives.

Offline No H2O

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2011, 11:13:24 am »
The best way to ensure those jobs stay in Oshawa is for Canadians to wake up and start buying products made here instead of across the Pacific Ocean.

Most of them have woken up ages ago, or the locals would still be in business.

What layoffs are Toyota Canada or Honda Canada experiencing in comparison?

Offline articsteve

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2011, 01:05:19 pm »
Seems GM is playing hardball with the CAW

Me thinks it's a tad more serious than that.  GM yanked the 1/2 tons out of Oshawa when the dollar was low and CAW wages were less.

Alright, lets do the math:  Canadians lent GM 9.5 BILLION and so far has recovered 1.4 BILLION in cash.  That leaves 8.1 BILLION in next to worthless stock.  ::)

It's beyond me why Canadians pledge such an allegiance to GM USA.  They could give a rats *ss about Canada and me thinks this is just the beginning of the draw down.  Mexico is just that much better.  Ask Ford and Chrysler.

It might be different if they made good cars.  They just don't and never will.  The most reliable car GM ever sold was the Vibe.   :)

As for Mr. Flaherty, he'll be unelectable in Oshawa in 4 years, but he's too old and will retire on both a fat Ontario and Provincial parliamentary pension leaving a stripped out Ontario.

Have a nice day.  :)




Offline No H2O

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2011, 02:49:06 pm »
It's beyond me why Canadians pledge such an allegiance to GM USA.

I'd bet if it were put to a vote by Canadians, there wouldn't have been a bailout, but then again considering the bleeding hearts in our society.

Mind you, I'd vote against a bailout. I was laid off once...where was the government then? So why would I care to support a company wasting raw resources (steel).

I have to remember to pay as little tax as possible the way these incompetent clowns blow my money.

Offline articsteve

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2011, 03:05:30 pm »
I have to remember to pay as little tax as possible the way these incompetent clowns blow my money.

I'm with you there.  Once there was this NOTION that paying taxes was patriotic, but after witnessing the entire Federal Government apparatus travel not 4 star, but 5 star, outlandish restaurant bills including fine wines, I no longer participate when the opportunity arises.  :P

The "Economic Action Plan" which has resulted in a 30 million dollar indoor swimming pool in every small town in Ontario is another fine example.  Case in point being Gravenhurst, Ontario.  Although one could argue that it may well out last GM Canada.

Offline safristi

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2011, 04:25:17 pm »
..they did say they were gonna POOL our money and phisssh it away in the shallow end............of the genepool :P
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Offline airbalancer

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2011, 04:49:39 pm »
I have to remember to pay as little tax as possible the way these incompetent clowns blow my money.

I'm with you there.  Once there was this NOTION that paying taxes was patriotic, but after witnessing the entire Federal Government apparatus travel not 4 star, but 5 star, outlandish restaurant bills including fine wines, I no longer participate when the opportunity arises.  :P

The "Economic Action Plan" which has resulted in a 30 million dollar indoor swimming pool in every small town in Ontario is another fine example.  Case in point being Gravenhurst, Ontario.  Although one could argue that it may well out last GM Canada.

Please stop with the BS ::)

We all know it was hockey rinks not pools :rofl:

Offline articsteve

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2011, 05:02:43 pm »
Actually I think it's both  :).  OS's mega Harponi/McSquinty complex has two rinks and one giant pool; $26 MILLION and climbing.  Never mind that we already have 1 huge indoor arena for the OS ATTACK, 2 indoor rinks, artifical outdoor rink, indoor pool and outdoor pool.

How do ya spell INSOLVENCY?  Oh ya, not a problem.  I forgot, it's called TAX INCREASES for ..... EVER!

Saffy style:  Spend, spend, spend, borrow, borrow, borrow, tax, tax, tax and then repeat as required.  :)




Offline RunsinLight

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2011, 07:10:35 pm »
My brother has been thinking of moving to the states. His response to me calling him crazy was. I'm tried of paying 30 grand in taxes per year and getting absolutely nothing in return

Offline Erik

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2011, 07:27:38 pm »
Having lived in both countries, he would have to be nuts. Canada is so far and away better, there is no comparison.
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Offline Seafoam

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2011, 09:00:33 pm »
My brother has been thinking of moving to the states. His response to me calling him crazy was. I'm tried of paying 30 grand in taxes per year and getting absolutely nothing in return


If he is paying 30 grand in income tax he must be doing alright on the income front. :D

Offline 2latecrew

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2011, 10:16:26 pm »
Gee no one saw this coming?

The US gave much bigger money in the bailout to save US jobs. There are only so many jobs to go around. There really was never any question which country was going to get the jobs if push came to shove.

I don't even think GM shafted Canada. I belive the Canadian Government shafted the taxpayer by giving them the bailout in the first place. This was easy to see coming from a mile away.

Offline articsteve

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2011, 11:09:52 pm »
Watching the PBS Newshour; Obama Motors has already made it official: 2500 jobs are coming to Michigan from Canada.  Not if.

Interesting timing.  Two weeks prior to May 2 and Canada may very well of had a different Minister of Finance.

BURN

Offline johngenx

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2011, 11:40:32 pm »
My brother has been thinking of moving to the states. His response to me calling him crazy was. I'm tried of paying 30 grand in taxes per year and getting absolutely nothing in return


Tell him not to let the door hit him in the a$$ on his way out.  Every minute of every day we come in contact with all of the things that our tax dollars pay for.  Does he drive a car?  Hope not.  Licensing, roads, traffic control and on and on.  Oh, he uses transit?  Whoops, lots of tax dollars at work there.  Kids play at the park?  Hope not.  Hope he never uses or needs health care of any kind.  Better not eat in a restaurant, as the health inspector was there.  Food safety also applies to the grocery store and all food processors, so I hope he's a good gardener.  I suppose he went to 100% private schools and didn't tax-payer funded education.  If he's an employer, he has the nice benefit of literate workers that come with some of the best basic skills in the world.  He better not fly to the US, as he'd have to deal with safe airline travel thanks to Transport Canada, also funded through tax dollars.

Oh, and I hope he's okay with still paying taxes.  I know people in the US that crow about their low income taxes, but when we compare total burdens, they pay somewhere.  Property taxes, whatever.  Services cost money no matter where you live.

Adios.  Stop taking up space in this great country.
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Offline Sival

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Re: GM shafts Canadians after bailout; surprised ?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2011, 11:46:47 pm »
It's the Canadian dollar.

The dollar was at around 65 cents in 2000, now it's at around 1,05 American dollar. That means that production costs (not just labor) have increased by nearly 50% versus what they are in the US. It's a disaster for Canadian manufacturing, which was losing jobs even BEFORE the crisis, and well-paid jobs for people without college degrees too.

This is a textbook example of the Dutch Disease, highly-desirable natural resources (here, oil) driving up the currency, making the rest of the economy uncompetitive with trading partners. What is usually done to fight it is to take some of the money coming from the natural resources and put it in a fund that invests in other countries, which reduces the value of the currency since a currency's exchange rate increases when more people want to convert other currencies into it, and lowers when you convert this currency into other currencies. That is what Norway is doing and has done for decades.

So American dollars are converted into Canadian dollars in mass because they are used to buy Canadian oil and then must be converted to Canadian dollars to pay people and businesses that extract oil in Canada. This drives up the Canadian dollar versus the American dollar, which especially hurts the rest of the economy since it's so easy for companies to move to the US from Canada.

The problem of course is that natural resources are a provincial matter, and Alberta doesn't care about the disaster its oil brings on the rest of the country, they are living the oil boom, and not the manufacturing bust. Their economy cannot be outsourced, as it's based on exploiting the local oil, so a stronger dollar for them is just a plus, they get to keep their job and have an higher purchasing power for internationally traded goods. Plus, the present federal government is led by Albertans mostly, their most precious base, they won't go against it.

So the problem is economic, the solution would need to be political.