Topic: Auto Manuf's Better Get Real On Supremacy Cdn Dollar

[tpl]

If I want to go buy a blender in the US because it is 20% cheaper the guy at Best buy isn't going to refuse to sell me one because I'm from Canada.

Exactly, and that is why I will be contacting the appropriate government agency to check into the legality of this.

And which American government agency would you contact.   If you are not an American resident why would the US government have any interest.

The only way this would ever get changed would be if Canada US formed a common market space as the EU has done and that is pretty unlikely as the various lobby groups in the US would never allow it to happen.

Well theoretically (and I have no illusions this would actually DO anything) it would be the Canadian government you'd contact.  Contact your MP and say "I tried to buy stuff in theUS and they refused to do business with me.. because I'm from Canada..what the heck is that about? Guess he'll have to contact the ambassador and start an international incident?

Legally there is nothing that compels a US dealer to turn away Canadian business. I don't even think there is anything in the franchise agreement with any manufacturer that prevents it. The manufacturer "suggests" to dealers they should not do it but probably can't outright prohibit it. They can however ensure that dealers who go against their wishes get moved down the list on dealer allocations etc.

I know there are US dealers that sell to Canadians. i can only assume they are big volume dealers that can thumb their noses at the Manufacture and say "I sell a zillion cars for you don't screw with me"

I am sure you are correct that the dealers are not legally required to refuse to sell to Canadians unless it IS in the franchise agreement.
 But in the highlighted sentence in your post, replace US with France or Zimbabwe and you should see that your MP would just say...it is a foreign country...it is their business how they sell stuff and to whom.

I really believe that many Canadians don't really think of the USA being a foreign country...or at least they didn't think so before the border got "thickened" after 9/11.   Maybe it shouldn't be a foreign country. After all if they had a proper Canadian style health care system and a few less guns what is the difference really?

[safristi]

Obnoxious TEXANS and NEW YORKERS.............. ...and maybe 15 other States....

[johngenx]

I just don't buy new cars that have outrageous Can/US differentials.  In fact, we haven't bought many new cars lately thanks to many things that the Canadian distributors and dealers are doing.  This includes the Canadian premium, the high PDI charges, ridiculous admin and other fees, and so on.

[rrocket]

I just don't buy new cars that have outrageous Can/US differentials.  In fact, we haven't bought many new cars lately thanks to many things that the Canadian distributors and dealers are doing.  This includes the Canadian premium, the high PDI charges, ridiculous admin and other fees, and so on.

Minivans made in Windsor.....there is a car lot a block down the road.  And last time I checked, freight charge was still on the minivan window sticker.  For traveling a block...

[No H2O]

And which American government agency would you contact.

I wouldn't; I'd contact one of our agencies.

Its our dealers and Canadian distributors pushing for the protectionist measures...not the Americans.

[No H2O]

Contact your MP and say "I tried to buy stuff in the US and they refused to do business with me.. because I'm from Canada..what the heck is that about?

I wouldn't tell him that. I'd tell him that according to the sales manager in the US dealership, VW Canada had talks with VW NA about not selling cars to Canadians.

You can  all you want, but you underestimate what a letter of complaint to all levels of government can do.

[Guy]

I just don't buy new cars that have outrageous Can/US differentials.  In fact, we haven't bought many new cars lately thanks to many things that the Canadian distributors and dealers are doing.  This includes the Canadian premium, the high PDI charges, ridiculous admin and other fees, and so on.

Same here, when I shopped for a new XC70 last spring it was $7k more expensive than in the States, even after adjusting for the 6.1% tax. I got an 09, 40K km, looking brand spanking new for $20K less than a new one, after taxes. And that included a set of winter's on steel rims and hub caps!

The more the manufacturers gouge us on the price, the more government cashes in in taxes, so their motivation to twist the arm of OEM's to adjust the pricing is not really there.

And let's face it, new car sales in Canada break records months after months, why would any OEM reduce their prices?

[2latecrew]

Contact your MP and say "I tried to buy stuff in the US and they refused to do business with me.. because I'm from Canada..what the heck is that about?

I wouldn't tell him that. I'd tell him that according to the sales manager in the US dealership, VW Canada had talks with VW NA about not selling cars to Canadians.

You can  all you want, but you underestimate what a letter of complaint to all levels of government can do.

You mean letters of complaint to a government who spent billions to bail out the auto industry? Yeah lot of good that will do.

I hardly think a government who can't be coerced to help rescue its own citizens from foreign prisons can be counted on to pay any attention to a letter about being denied a car. Not only do they not care its not in their interest to off the Automakers.

You buying a car from the US does 0 for Canada. It takes $ and jobs out of Canada. The government of Canada would be stupid to do anything that promotes that when they spent billion to save a fraction of the jobs that autos provide to Canada already.

Letters do nothing. Complaint does nothing. Either import or bend o ver and take it those are the only options.

[Vmango]

Rather than writing a letter, your time would be better spent just finding a dealer of your choice that will sell to you. Heck, most brand-specific forums have a sticky on the subject.

I've imported a WRX from New York, a Cayenne from Michigan, and an A4 from Ohio...... Yes, I got turned down at some places but many were more than willing to talk......

[2latecrew]

Rather than writing a letter, your time would be better spent just finding a dealer of your choice that will sell to you. Heck, most brand-specific forums have a sticky on the subject.

I've imported a WRX from New York, a Cayenne from Michigan, and an A4 from Ohio...... Yes, I got turned down at some places but many were more than willing to talk......

Props to you...its called putting your money where your mouth is.

I used to complain but now realize that I am unlikely to travel all the way to the US  and go through the process to buy a car. My only alternative is to buy in Canada. I know nothing is going to change no matter what I say. I may not like it but the world simply isn't a fair place.

[johngenx]

I make sure that the dealer knows that I walked for whatever reason, be it Canadian premium pricing, or Admin fees, etc.  If enough people let them know, they might pressure the distributors to lower wholesale prices.  They might revisit admin fees.

We bought the Corolla new, and were careful to let the dealer know that the only reason we did was that we thought the price was very fair (the 09's had a significant price drop, bringing the at-the-time pricing nearly the same as US pricing), the PDI/freight was high, but not outrageous ($1100) and no admin/etc fees made me "vote at home" with my dollars.

We're still all over the map with figuring out what to replace the Forester with, but right now, nothing new is even in the ballpark thanks to the massive Canadian premium and large delivery fees.  Subaru has $7K in discounts on the 2011 Tribeca, which brings the price closer, but then they add back in a ton of fees.  Cripes.

[2latecrew]

I make sure that the dealer knows that I walked for whatever reason, be it Canadian premium pricing, or Admin fees, etc.  If enough people let them know, they might pressure the distributors to lower wholesale prices.  They might revisit admin fees.

I believe if many people walked due to admin fees they would remove them or try to hide them somewhere else.

I don't believe enough people will ever walk to have any effect on Canada vs US pricing. You need to be a cash buyer to do so and there just are not that many cash buyers. Even if this were the case they aren't going to pressure for a price drop. We saw what happens with say BMW. They exert pressure and they throw up artificial barriers (crazy clearance letter fees or 10K for a replacement instrument panel.

Most dealers if you say ..I'm not buying because I bought in the US will just throw up their hands and say "Whatch gonna do" and move on.

[No H2O]

Letters do nothing. Complaint does nothing. Either import or bend over and take it those are the only options.

Wow, your typical Canadian attitude of failure before you even get started. We or at least most of us are such sheep.

I won't get into the details on here, but I have fired off a few letters to my MP and was 100% satisfied with the results.

[tpl]

2late. BMW can throw up these barriers because of our regulations which were put up to stop Canadians buying cars in the USA 50+ years ago.    For instance, if Canada said that a person/company could import any car that met EU regulations or US regulations as is with no changes all this crap would just disappear.  Note that I do not say Jdm cars as they'd be right hand drive.
Changing the rules as I suggest would make no difference to emissions nor to crashworthyness.   We'd still charge duty if the government insisted  and still charge HST. I bet that pretty soon you'd find a good number of otherwise unobtainable EU cars on our streets and the infrastructure to support them.

[2latecrew]

Letters do nothing. Complaint does nothing. Either import or bend over and take it those are the only options.

Wow, your typical Canadian attitude of failure before you even get started. We or at least most of us are such sheep.

I won't get into the details on here, but I have fired off a few letters to my MP and was 100% satisfied with the results.

I think that's pretty unreasonable. I didn't say letters never do anything for any issue.

This issue. US Auto dealers charging less than Canadian Auto Dealers (or manufactures charging dealers less in US than Canada) isn't a government regulated issue.

Its a free market and writing a letter to your MP saying you want Canadian dealers to sell you cars cheaper will do absolutely 0. Its simply not something that MPs have any real influence over. Plus the government is not inclined to mess with this. Enabling easier importation of US vehicles into Canada is counterproductive in terms of growing the Canadian economy. Letters are useless. in this instance.

[johngenx]

What pisses me off is that free trade is not free trade.  Manufacturers want free trade of labour and their raw materials and finished goods, but they want consumers to be restricted in where they purchase those goods.  One-sided free trade.

This is why government needs to be involved.  A truly free market is not a good thing.  It leads to monopoly with nothing resembling competition and also tends to be contradictory to the goals of a civil society.  It's chaos and anarchy.  Somalia is a perfect example of unfettered capitalism.  Seems a little less than ideal.

The regulation of markets to enhance competition is good.  It would be simple for the US government (asked by Canada) to require dealers to sell their products to Canadians.  But, wait, how can they do that?  Can't you choose who you sell to?  Well, yes and no.  You can't refuse to sell something to someone because of their ethnic origin, can you?  No.  So, we can make laws about the sale of goods.  Refusing to sell to Canadians could be illegal.  The same for honouring a warranty for one consumer and not another.

Anyone remember NAFTA?  Canada, the US and Mexico were supposed to be one big market.  I didn't want it.  I am in favour of managed and negotiated trade (being anti free-trade DOES NOT mean you're not in favour of trade, so if you're going to type that, STFU now).  But, we have it.  Well, we don't.  I can't buy a BMW in the US and drive it in Canada, without paying outrageous penalties.  Sounds like tariffs.  Sounds very un-free-trade like.

[2latecrew]

What pisses me off is that free trade is not free trade.  Manufacturers want free trade of labour and their raw materials and finished goods, but they want consumers to be restricted in where they purchase those goods.  One-sided free trade.

This is why government needs to be involved.  A truly free market is not a good thing.  It leads to monopoly with nothing resembling competition and also tends to be contradictory to the goals of a civil society.  It's chaos and anarchy.  Somalia is a perfect example of unfettered capitalism.  Seems a little less than ideal.

The regulation of markets to enhance competition is good.  It would be simple for the US government (asked by Canada) to require dealers to sell their products to Canadians.  But, wait, how can they do that?  Can't you choose who you sell to?  Well, yes and no.  You can't refuse to sell something to someone because of their ethnic origin, can you?  No.  So, we can make laws about the sale of goods.  Refusing to sell to Canadians could be illegal.  The same for honouring a warranty for one consumer and not another.

Anyone remember NAFTA?  Canada, the US and Mexico were supposed to be one big market.  I didn't want it.  I am in favour of managed and negotiated trade (being anti free-trade DOES NOT mean you're not in favour of trade, so if you're going to type that, STFU now).  But, we have it.  Well, we don't.  I can't buy a BMW in the US and drive it in Canada, without paying outrageous penalties.  Sounds like tariffs.  Sounds very un-free-trade like.

I didn't disagree with your premise that I would prefer that I could go to the US and buy a car for less with no penalty if I choose. The issue is that that is NOT something that the Canadian government will consider in their best interest. It doesn't help the economy of Canada and doesn't bring tax revenue to the government. Its simply not going to happen. That's life. No amount of letters or Occupy Park protests will change it. Its one thing for the Government of Canada to make demands on Car dealers that use the services of Canada in Canada. Asking them to influence independent business in a foreign country is simply not going to happen no matter how much we might want it to.

[No H2O]

Its a free market and writing a letter to your MP saying you want Canadian dealers to sell you cars cheaper will do absolutely 0.

I also won't be writing my MP on that issue, but I have on others with super results...I don't want to wear out my welcome. 

Look, don't worry about it. Its my wallet and it has always done very well...and I'm not even Scottish. 

[johngenx]

But isn't that what NAFTA was all about?  About fading the border in terms of economic activity?  It was sold to voters by Mulroney as finally allowing Canadians and Americans to realize one large market.  BS.

I don't anticipate change, but what I hope happens is it illustrates to people that free trade is not really free trade and instead a unilateral trade system that assists companies and punishes consumers and perhaps we should GTFO of it.  Six months notice and then resume negotiated and managed trade that is good for everyone...

(Though in fairness, thanks to our low dollar at some points, NAFTA was advantageous to Canada, but only due to the weak dollar, and was not an anticipated result...)

In the meantime, vote with your dollars.  I hate it, so I don't buy new cars.

[No H2O]

And in the end, nobody has been able to tell me what I'm getting for those extra $595...$770 vs $1365 just for freight/PDE. Lets not forget, no admin fee down there either.   I guess they want to sell cars.