Topic: First Drive: 2012 Audi A6

[Autos_Editor]

Arriving in the third quarter of 2011, the 2012 Audi A6 offers a '16 per cent reduction in fuel consumption', 'is surprisingly agile for a big car,' and has a 'beautiful' cabin 'that feels expansive and light,' reports Bob McHugh from Sicily.

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[tpl]

I wonder if the transmission is a DSG or a slushbox. one would hope for a DSG in a new model...

[theonlydt]

I know the North American market doesn't "get" lower powered models, especially smaller diesels (it's barely accepting of diesels in general!) the 2.0TDI is expected to take over 70% of A6 sales. 175bhp, 280lbf of torque, 0-100kmh in 8.7 seconds and 57.7mpg on the European "combined cycle" (6 speed manual). Very few people need more performance than that - unless that torque is found somewhere around 5000rpm - in this case it's 1750rpm.

[JohnM]

The continued failure of manufacturers to import the more interesting engine options is disappointing.  It used to be that Canadian diesel wasn't of high enough quality but what are the reasons now?

Certification issues?  Anticipate low volume?  Not enough power to get those critical ringing media endorsements?

What are the major obstacles between us and those very juicy and (for most people) very sensible engine options?

Cheers,
John Meyer

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Like the updated interior - much more rich. Audi tends to favour style over room, so wondering if lowering the height further impacts headroom?

No more A6 Avant, eh? Bah humbug.

[dirtyjeffer]

the problem regarding our selection of diesel options isn't the arrogance of the manufacturer...it is the tight emissions regulations here...in Canada, diesel engines MUST meet the same standards as cars (Tier 2 Bin 5), and a few US states are also very strict (CA and NY for example)...the current 2.0L TDI engine used by VW in many of their products is an example of CleanDiesel technology that satisfies all emission requirements...however, if you load up the engine with too much weight, your emissions will no longer meet the specification, which is why the Tiguan TDI is NOT availalble here (but is in other markets)...of course, manufacturers can use other technologies, like Urea injection to allow larger and heavier diesels to still meet emissions standards, but that adds to the complexity of the system (which consumers may not like), the cost of the vehicle (which consumers may not like) and the cost to maintain the vehicle (which consumers may not like)...the issue is our emissions standards are among the toughest in the world.

[tpl]

Actually DirtyJ  the problem is that Tier 2 Bin 5 is specifically aimed at GASOLINE engines and does not  allow for the different combustion characteristic of diesel engines. Apart from the diesels I think the current or maybe next year EU emissions regs are the same as the EPA but without that UAW sneaky trick that specifically allows bigger vehicles to pollute more.

IMHO the BEST answer for Canadians would be to allow the EU standards for Diesel AND gas engines as well as the American standards.  It would make no difference at all to the levels of pollutants in the air. The EU spec cars would probably have to have a warning label saying they could not be sold on into the USA tho' but under various longstanding treaties  Canadians could still drive them in the US as tourists.

[ktm525]

Like the updated interior - much more rich. Audi tends to favour style over room, so wondering if lowering the height further impacts headroom?

No more A6 Avant, eh? Bah humbug.

Well there goes 3 sales.

[PlanB]

The continued failure of manufacturers to import the more interesting engine options is disappointing.  It used to be that Canadian diesel wasn't of high enough quality but what are the reasons now?

Certification issues?  Anticipate low volume?  Not enough power to get those critical ringing media endorsements?

What are the major obstacles between us and those very juicy and (for most people) very sensible engine options?

Cheers,
John Meyer

Some info regarding diesel, albeit a couple years old and US focus:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/diesel/4330313

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1041878_ready-for-that-shiny-new-diesel-powered-car-not-so-fast

[gord_boyd]

Pricing at VW/Audi is apparently emulating gap in incomes.  The Jetta and now Passat drop by significant
amounts ($8K on Passat base ??) but seem to climb on Audi even though N.A. has N.A. produced
Acura TL and Optima Turbo 2.0 with HID headlights; bigger brakes; and warranty. (and apparently Hyundai Equus & maybe Genesis will be AWD available soon.)  Europe does not have these and
so one wonders how many Euro-biased buyers will prop up Audi?  That is why Audi don't view either as competitors
but I would like to see test drive comparos.

[Artish]

The continued failure of manufacturers to import the more interesting engine options is disappointing.  It used to be that Canadian diesel wasn't of high enough quality but what are the reasons now?
Certification issues?  Anticipate low volume?  Not enough power to get those critical ringing media endorsements?
What are the major obstacles between us and those very juicy and (for most people) very sensible engine options?
Cheers,
John Meyer

Greed is the major factor: greed from manufacturers that get MUCH MORE profit from selling "big engine models to the stupid North Americans that buy them" (Canadians included) and Greed from the govenrment who makes money from us buying more gas to feed our thirsty vehicles. We will NEVER get the low consuming engines in reasonable sized cars unless this handshake is broken.

[jose99]

Audi still has not addressed their reliability issues.  They can put all of the electronics they want but if the car is in the shop 50% of the time, who cares.  Merc went through this back in the mid nineties and they learned their lesson.  It's time audi admit this and make efforts to correct it.  Nice looking cars but they suck to live with.  Trust me I know.  Owning a luxury car does not mean you have to put up with crappy reliability.  When you're paying 70k you can expect to have a fast good looking and reliable car.  BMW Mercedes and Porche can do it.  May audi uses too many vw parts in their cars.  Buyer Beware.  Hey canadian driver, how about you guys watch a few episodes of TOP GEAR then you can write entertaining and informative car reviews.  You're still better than motoring 2011 and driving tv (Zach sucks).

[dirtyjeffer]

Actually DirtyJ  the problem is that Tier 2 Bin 5 is specifically aimed at GASOLINE engines and does not  allow for the different combustion characteristic of diesel engines.

oh, i know...but my point is, diesels have to meet the same restrictions as gasoline engines do.

IMHO the BEST answer for Canadians would be to allow the EU standards for Diesel AND gas engines as well as the American standards.  It would make no difference at all to the levels of pollutants in the air. The EU spec cars would probably have to have a warning label saying they could not be sold on into the USA tho' but under various longstanding treaties  Canadians could still drive them in the US as tourists.

won't happen...Canada is not a large enough market...we must align our systems to the US, or we are less likely to get anything cool...for example, look at the trim levels available in the USA for the 2011 Hyundai Sonata and here...in the US, you can choose several different colour options that are not available here, and the packages are done differently...for example, you can add Nav on lower level trims...because of our limited market, we get the models AS IS with fewer colour choices...GL, GLS, Limited and Limited w Nav.

[Sasker]

Canadian tastes are more in line with Europeans than with Americans. Smaller, more reasoanble vehicles, wagons and hatchbacks, manual transmissions, etc. are more in demand here, but we get boring automatic-only SUVs because Americans like them.

 The same for diesels. The cost of diesel is cheaper than gas in Canada, and we still don't get many diesels.

 I think there is real benefit for Canadians if we align our standards more with Europe.

[gut]

Guys, Canada IS NOT a small market!
It is smaller than the US market, but it is not small!
And the market size IS NOT the limiting factor in the number of models available on the market.

Let me prove it please. The market in Serbia (10 mill. souls with much less money available for luxury cars than in Canada) has the following model selection from Audi. Go and see for yourself.
http://www.audi.rs/yu/download/preisliste/Cenovnik_Audi_A4_Avant.pdf
Unbelievable, isn't it?

The same is for even smaller markets, say in Croatia (5 mill souls or even less?). See all 375 Audi models/trims offered there:
http://cc.porscheinformatik.com/nwapp/nws_hr?SVC=CC_MODELLTRICHTER&STYLE=AUDI&LANG=hr&FAB=A&MG=

So, the market size is definitely NOT the cause of a limited model selection here in Canada.

And Audi is not the only one with that kind of policy. Try to buy here the medium or lower powered Mercedes or BMW. Try to find Mercedes A here. Or Audi 1. Or BMW 3-diesel station wagon with X-drive. Or Mercedes Class E convertible Diesel !?

They just have us, the suckers, for a ride, and that is going on for decades now!
Of course, whoever said that government is in line with manufacturers was right in that.
More powerful engines, more tax dollars.
Simple.

It would be funny if it wasn't sad 

[rrocket]

Guys, Canada IS NOT a small market!
It is smaller than the US market, but it is not small!

Last time I checked, we barely make the Top 10.  So yea...we're a relatively small market.  California ALONE outsells all of Canada usually.  And many of those European countries get plenty of those cars because they don't have to ship them halfway around the world.  They can be delivered by truck (or rail) vs. boat for the North American market.  Big difference in cost right off the top.  And despite what you may believe, Audi is a small time seller in the USA, as is (relatively speaking) BMW.

Here are some countries that outsell Canada (in no particular order)

USA
China
Germany
Russia
France
Italy
UK
Japan
Brazil

[tpl]

Actually DirtyJ  the problem is that Tier 2 Bin 5 is specifically aimed at GASOLINE engines and does not  allow for the different combustion characteristic of diesel engines.

oh, i know...but my point is, diesels have to meet the same restrictions as gasoline engines do.

IMHO the BEST answer for Canadians would be to allow the EU standards for Diesel AND gas engines as well as the American standards.  It would make no difference at all to the levels of pollutants in the air. The EU spec cars would probably have to have a warning label saying they could not be sold on into the USA tho' but under various longstanding treaties  Canadians could still drive them in the US as tourists.

won't happen...Canada is not a large enough market...we must align our systems to the US, or we are less likely to get anything cool...for example, look at the trim levels available in the USA for the 2011 Hyundai Sonata and here...in the US, you can choose several different colour options that are not available here, and the packages are done differently...for example, you can add Nav on lower level trims...because of our limited market, we get the models AS IS with fewer colour choices...GL, GLS, Limited and Limited w Nav.

When or if we sign a free trade deal with the EU we could stop "importing" American cars and get all the options on EU cars instead... one may die hoping for that sadly. BUT we'd have to align all our standards with the EU.  Doing that we may as well just join them and set up a good old fashioned tariff wall along the US border.  Trudeau's  3rd way.
By EU standards we have quite a large population.
If we got all the EU cars with their  EU options why would we want to buy Hyundais anyway ?

You do bring up a very good point anyway. If we are to align our systems to the USA then let us do so completely.  Be exactly one market for everything.  Insist that all available models of everything ( cars, TVs, washing machines etc.) be the same models.  Start a cottage industry in PQ/NB sticking French labels on stuff and translating manuals.  One dollar, one passport etc.


end rant.

If I was in the market for that size of car, the new A6 would be very appealing with a DSG.  I sorta nearly perhaps considered one in 2003 when I bought a BMW but in those days I would not buy an automatic.  I still wouldn't buy a slushbox but the DSG is fine.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Easiest solution is to allow anyone to import any car that currently meets EU or US standards. Let the market decide, remove non-tariff barriers and all that. Excuse me while I have an Ayn Rand moment!

The current Tories are all about free trade when it benefits corporations. Much less so when it benefits individuals.

[dirtyjeffer]

Easiest solution is to allow anyone to import any car that currently meets EU or US standards. Let the market decide, remove non-tariff barriers and all that. Excuse me while I have an Ayn Rand moment!

The current Tories are all about free trade when it benefits corporations. Much less so when it benefits individuals.

hmmmm, no...there is one large benefit of tariffs on imported cars...it is an incentive for the manufacturer to set up shop and produce the cars here...look at all the "imports" who now have production over here, just in the past 20 years...BWM, Mercedes, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Lexus, Hyundai, Kia, VW, and more to follow (Hyundai is considering another plant to keep up with demand, Audi's may be built in the new future here as well, possibly at the new TN facility)...by having these "import" companies build their cars here, they are "investing" in our economy...employing people to have good jobs, paying taxes, and generating revenues for the various economies and communities...it is a win-win for all.

[christov11]

The fact of the mater isnt nesesarily the emissions; but the market value.

US is placed 4th or 5th in the standings for Audi.

While Canada is placed 14th...

Their demand is going to come first for that reason.

I know... it sucks.

This is the reason why we don't see more diesel cars.

The proof: Obama just cut everywhere BUT electric research.

With a little patience we will see diesel more and more as people realize it is a valuable economical and ecological solution.

Its more of an ''american mentality'' issue.

It might not be right, but it is what they think the americans think.

Another little point towards the above...

Audi has developped a hybrid Q5 ONLY for the north american market. This vehicle will not be sold anywhere else (as of now). This is simply to answer, once again, to the US markets demand.