Topic: Preview: 2012 Chevrolet Sonic

[safristi]

..Just wait till the "HEDGEHOG" and BURGER CO. get after their use on the lame name..................does look decent inside and out in both iterations,but as someone has said MID TEEN $$$$'s may not cut it in this perceived CHEAP ASS SEGMENT.....aka 10K Accents (prolly more like $15K out the door for a decently optioned one) nonetheless it has it's work cut out for it.................

[dkerr24]

I'm surprised the Sonic Burger chain doesn't raise legal issues with GM for the use of this name. Sonic headquarters is located here in Oklahoma City.

[Mike]

I'm surprised the Sonic Burger chain doesn't raise legal issues with GM for the use of this name. Sonic headquarters is located here in Oklahoma City.

I think (not 100%) that if a product is used in a different industry it is harder to establish copy-right infringement.   

-Pontiac G3 and G5 are also names of Apple Computers
-Pontiac G6 and the now famous Gulfstream "G6" G650
-Dodge Viper and Viper Alarms

[Sival]

I'm surprised the Sonic Burger chain doesn't raise legal issues with GM for the use of this name. Sonic headquarters is located here in Oklahoma City.

I think (not 100%) that if a product is used in a different industry it is harder to establish copy-right infringement.   

-Pontiac G3 and G5 are also names of Apple Computers
-Pontiac G6 and the now famous Gulfstream "G6" G650
-Dodge Viper and Viper Alarms

It's not copyright, copyright protects an intellectual product, not a name. What you're talking about is a trademark. These are two different things legally.

And it's not just harder, it's impossible to protect a trademark across industry. Trademarks exist to allow a company to distinguish its product from its competitors' or to distinguish itself from its competitors, hence the name. So someone can use the same name as long as there is no confusion between the two products, and who is going to confuse a car with a fast food restaurant or a character in a video game? A moron who deserves what's coming to him, that's who!

[PJungnitsch]

Wheels over 18" are a reason not to consider a car as far as I'm concerned. A huge waste of money when it comes to to replace tires or shop for winters. One reason I've never even considered a Venza is the 20" standard wheel size.

It's not like the bigger tires actually contain more rubber or anything, the outside diameter usually stays the same while the profile shrinks. They probably contain less rubber. The high prices seem to be an artifact of these tire designs being new, but as these sizes become common prices drop to match.

Already Venza 20" Blizzaks are $163.00 at TireRack, and Goodyear allseasons in 20" can be gotten for $108.00.

[dirtyjeffer]

meh...it doesn't look that much different from the Aveo to me (on exterior shape)...it also resembles a Scion XD as well...either way, it looks to be improved over the outgoing model, but is it improved enough to take on the new Accent that comes out in April and May (sedan and 5 door hatch)?...we will see.

[tpl]

Wheels over 18" are a reason not to consider a car as far as I'm concerned. A huge waste of money when it comes to to replace tires or shop for winters. One reason I've never even considered a Venza is the 20" standard wheel size.

It's not like the bigger tires actually contain more rubber or anything, the outside diameter usually stays the same while the profile shrinks. They probably contain less rubber. The high prices seem to be an artifact of these tire designs being new, but as these sizes become common prices drop to match.

Already Venza 20" Blizzaks are $163.00 at TireRack, and Goodyear allseasons in 20" can be gotten for $108.00.

They do tend to be a lot wider which uses some of the rubber that is no longer in the sidewalls.

[kicker]

Large wheels just increase unsprung weight . Its a trade off , the bigger the wheel , the slower you accelerate , but adds more grip in the corners because of the bigger foot print, though diameter remains nearly the same , it's bad place to have extra weight from over big wheels . Slows handling , makes the car less nimble .

[SJP]

Actually, wider wheels do not increase contact patch, they simple change the shape.  The shorter sidewall improves rigidity, which helps steering feel. It is true that bigger wheels can add unsprung weight, but on any given model, the overall tire diameter is almost the same, regardless of which wheel/tire package is selected. Changing the diameter can have very funny results, and manufacturers don't do this. Larger rims with lower profile tires make steering feel more responsive, and of course give the vehicle a certain look, but at some point you get diminishing returns especially on every day run-of-the-mill vehicles. And, on a bargain basement vehicle, it simply increases the cost of replacing tires on a vehicle that was most likely bought to be economical, even though the price of larger tires has and will continue to get lower.

[kicker]

the funny results you are referring to is the speedometer readings
Added
well aware of the effects of a shorter profile tire, personnally , I don't like going below 50
but I can tolerate alot regarding comfort . I have yet to drive a car that has harsher suspension than some bikes I've owned .

Sival

 Point well made, people often speak on topics they know little about .
Its always interesting how they can appear to know what they are talking about when in fact know very little about it at all .

[tpl]

Those "funny results" are noticed mostly on the speedo readings indeed. 
But anything that moves the centre of the front wheel tire contact patch away from where the suspension engineers put it will alter the handling to some extent. This sort of "funny effect" is more noticeable  on a FWD car and is exacerbated by slippery conditions.
Whether you'd notice on a car like, say, a Camry is another matter and I suspect that altering diameter to the limited extent allowed by bodywork would be unnoticeable...compared to altering offset for instance.

[SJP]

"the funny results you are referring to is the speedometer readings
Added"

I am aware that the most obvious issue is with speedo calibration, but if the diameter is changed by any great amount, you also affect the working drive ratios. Talk to anyone who has put oversize tires on a truck or Jeep, and things do change. Of course it is debatable just how much a slightly larger diameter would really affect said Camry, but it would affect it. This is not an issue with proper plus fitments, since the overall diameter is kept in check. Also, the suspension damping will be calibrated for the size the vehicle was originally designed for, and shortening the sidewall too much will certainly affect ride harshness. A few years back, Car and Driver put a set of 20 or 21" wheels on a Jag XJ(this was when it had the upgraded 18's from the factory). I believe they said that there was a subjective improvement in handling  sharpness, but it wrecked the ride quality, and did not improve the test numbers at all.

[robsaw]

It is true that bigger wheels can add unsprung weight, but on any given model, the overall tire diameter is almost the same, regardless of which wheel/tire package is selected.

I'd suggest that when selecting manufacturer's optional tire packages between 16, 17 and 18 inch wheels, you will find that the overall diameter IS increasing.  For example, several GM models offer 17 and 18 inch wheels, but both with 225-50 width/aspect-ratio rubber, which means the speedo is specifically calibrated for the installed wheel/tire package.  It also means that weigth increases due to both more metal in the wheel and more rubber in the tire.  The trend to bigger tire/wheel packages is almost pure style - and a bonus for the tire manufacturers.

[SJP]

"I'd suggest that when selecting manufacturer's optional tire packages between 16, 17 and 18 inch wheels, you will find that the overall diameter IS increasing.  For example, several GM models offer 17 and 18 inch wheels, but both with 225-50 width/aspect-ratio rubber, which means the speedo is specifically calibrated for the installed wheel/tire package.  It also means that weigth increases due to both more metal in the wheel and more rubber in the tire.  The trend to bigger tire/wheel packages is almost pure style - and a bonus for the tire manufacturers."

This may be true in some cases, I can't say for sure, but I know from my experience, three of my last vehicles(mazda 5 with 17's, Highlander with 17's, Lexus GS with 17's) have the larger wheel/tire size, and they have all been VERY close to the diameter of the smaller wheel/tire available. In fact my winter wheels and tires are all in the smaller size specified as stock, and when the 16's and 17's sit side by side, the diameter is the same,  only the proportion of rubber to rim is different.

It would certainly be easier for a manufacturer to change the profile and keep the diameter the same, than to recalibrate the speedo just for a tire upgrade. Of course any special models than might have different axle ratios and suspension tuning could be an exception.

I suspect on a vehicle like the Sonic, they would simply go with a bigger wheel, lower profile tire to keep everything the same. Like I said maybe if it a whole package, (maybe Z-12? HA HA) the suspension may receive a few tweaks, maybe not.

[Kirspin]

This Vehicle is going to be built at the Orion plant, where 60 percent of the Workers will be paid $14.00 per hour, I can foresee shoddy workmanship in the future,there was a blog on a USA, TTAC about the ill feeling already existing at this plant!  Buyer beware eh?

[blur911]

This Vehicle is going to be built at the Orion plant, where 60 percent of the Workers will be paid $14.00 per hour, I can foresee shoddy workmanship in the future,there was a blog on a USA, TTAC about the ill feeling already existing at this plant!  Buyer beware eh?

I think I'd still trust American workers at $14/hr building a Chevy than Chinese workers building Chevys at $14/day (week?).

[tpl]

Speedo calibration these days is just a number in a computer fortunately.

[D70]

The name "Sonic" seems a little pretentious to me.  Perhaps "Subsonic" might be more fitting. 

Red is a great colour for this roomy car, I hope it drives well also

http://www.flickr.com/photos/d70w7/6131597394/

[USAFANG67]

Does it come with brake pads or is that an option ;-)

[Seafoam]

Does it come with brake pads or is that an option ;-)

Rear pads are standard , fronts are optional.