Author Topic: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1  (Read 9083 times)

Offline Erik

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2011, 12:10:06 pm »
Both Tuscon and Sportage with 2.0 T engine are away from the price range considered to be their own. There gona be troubles for Hyundai/KIA in terms sales. Value is what should be the main sales pont for both, this is their Genesis!

I disagree - I think gone are the days that Hyundai/Kia need to be priced BELOW everyone else because they don't make as reliable a product. Multiple sources now have Hyundai/Kia in their top 10 most reliable makers - beating out all domestic and in very close competition with the Japanese market leaders. AND they've been doing it for the last 4 or so years - so there's no reason why they shouldn't think they can increase their price. Anyone doing the proper research will see they're still an excellent value.

I thought the Fusion, for instance was about the most reliable mid-size car you could buy? So every Hyundai product is better than every Ford product? Didn't JD Power recently call the Cadillac DTS the most reliable car you could buy???
"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive." - Sir William Lyons

Offline Spec5

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2011, 12:23:01 pm »
I thought the Fusion, for instance was about the most reliable mid-size car you could buy? So every Hyundai product is better than every Ford product? Didn't JD Power recently call the Cadillac DTS the most reliable car you could buy???

Not necessarily - its by brand - not by model - so I'm guessing they take into account every single model in each manuf. lineup.

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I love people who don't read the links they post.

This recall has to do with a sensor problem and a fuel line problem. I don't see any reference to plastic fuel tanks being a problem.

I wonder if Hyundai will recall its 2005 Sonatas due to premature rusting of its metal fuel tanks?

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2011, 12:24:27 pm »
Lets take a look at this 3 yrs from now and see if that comes true.  I said currently resale on their cars is crap.  In 3-5 yrs things might be different. 
it is the same measure that has been done for years...it's funny...i don't recall any "doubting" when Toyota and Honda were grabbing the awards the last decade. ::)

http://www.hyundaicanada.com/Pages/About/Awards.aspx

Offline carcrazy

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #83 on: January 26, 2011, 12:41:43 pm »
Lets take a look at this 3 yrs from now and see if that comes true.  I said currently resale on their cars is crap.  In 3-5 yrs things might be different. 
it is the same measure that has been done for years...it's funny...i don't recall any "doubting" when Toyota and Honda were grabbing the awards the last decade. ::)


Very different situation. Toyota/Honda had a long factual history behind them. Hyundai does not and even more, it's been known for more than a decade to be on the other end of the spectrum with (very) low resale value.
I doubt three years will be enough to jump from the bottom to the top, but we'll see.
It's just a prediction anyway.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 12:52:03 pm by carcrazy »

Offline Turbo Bob

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #84 on: January 26, 2011, 12:55:07 pm »
Lets take a look at this 3 yrs from now and see if that comes true.  I said currently resale on their cars is crap.  In 3-5 yrs things might be different. 
it is the same measure that has been done for years...it's funny...i don't recall any "doubting" when Toyota and Honda were grabbing the awards the last decade. ::)


Very different situation. Toyota/Honada had a long factual history behind them. Hyundai does not and even more, it's been know for more than a decade to be on the other end of the spectrum with low resale value.
I doubt three years will be enough to jump from the bottom to the top, but we'll see.
It's just a prediction anyway.


Last weekend in Detroit Jeff said to me that used Gen Coupe prices were holding very well indeed.  I haven't looked but that would be good news.  On the whole Hyundai and Kia really stole the show for me, much as I like what other companies are producing, their cars were the only ones that were significantly above (design, ergonomics, competitive pricing, and now reliability) what I would have expected.  Hyundai also had a good stand at CES showcasing their in-car technology and future concepts.
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Offline Turbo Bob

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #85 on: January 26, 2011, 01:02:52 pm »
Excuse me if this has been asked and answered before but ...What do you drive CatsEye68 and why?  (just trying to get some perspective on some of the positions you take)

But to compare them to a heavier, more expensive vehicle... is simply shortsighted.

I must remember that, heavier = better quality.

Damn, there goes Lotus again!  :rofl2:

Offline tpl

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #86 on: January 26, 2011, 01:16:15 pm »
Ford actually used to advertise that their cars had " road hugging weight"
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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2011, 07:54:31 pm »
Very different situation. Toyota/Honda had a long factual history behind them. Hyundai does not and even more, it's been known for more than a decade to be on the other end of the spectrum with (very) low resale value.
I doubt three years will be enough to jump from the bottom to the top, but we'll see.
It's just a prediction anyway.

Hyundai has been steadily improving quality over the past decade...check out their reliability ratings.

and you are correct, it is a prediction...it is based on "perceived value"...look at what "perceived value" has done to Toyota and Honda lately...they are both suffering from drops in sales, while Hyundai has increased sales by 40% in the past 2 years...let's remember, the past 2 years were a recession.

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2011, 09:20:58 pm »
Ford actually used to advertise that their cars had " road hugging weight"

As opposed to other makes' "road-rattling tin"... :rofl2:

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2011, 09:23:31 pm »
Ford actually used to advertise that their cars had " road hugging weight"

As opposed to other makes' "road-rattling tin"... :rofl2:

Like your Buick?   :rofl2:
How fast is my Supra?  I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....

Offline CanuckG35

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2011, 09:42:47 pm »
Ford actually used to advertise that their cars had " road hugging weight"

As opposed to other makes' "road-rattling tin"... :rofl2:

Like your Buick?   :rofl2:

Nah, Buick has no issues whatsoever!!!

Oh wait, they have an entire domain name for it.  http://www.buickproblems.com/

 ;D    :rofl2:

I have no issues with Buick whatsoever as I strongly considered an Enclave, however unlike Catseye68 I can actually comment objectively and won't dismiss a vehicle solely based on the hood symbol.  :)
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Online rrocket

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2011, 09:45:25 pm »


Nah, Buick has no issues whatsoever!!!



IIRC it was either the Lucerne or the Allure that had the "squeaks and rattles as a common complaint".

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2011, 10:05:26 pm »
Ford actually used to advertise that their cars had " road hugging weight"

As opposed to other makes' "road-rattling tin"... :rofl2:

Agree!

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Offline carcrazy

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2011, 12:51:57 am »
Very different situation. Toyota/Honda had a long factual history behind them. Hyundai does not and even more, it's been known for more than a decade to be on the other end of the spectrum with (very) low resale value.
I doubt three years will be enough to jump from the bottom to the top, but we'll see.
It's just a prediction anyway.

Hyundai has been steadily improving quality over the past decade...check out their reliability ratings.
and you are correct, it is a prediction...it is based on "perceived value"...look at what "perceived value" has done to Toyota and Honda lately...they are both suffering from drops in sales, while Hyundai has increased sales by 40% in the past 2 years...let's remember, the past 2 years were a recession.

Where were they 10 years ago? Easy to improve when you start from the very bottom.
People buy cheap stuff in recession; Hyundai had the right product for the right price (incentives) at the right time.

This is not to minimize the merits of Hyundai and their new products; they are indeed good and very competitive, but I believe that the major challanges are ahead. If they continue to grow while the economy improves and the competition gets even tougher, then they are onto something.

My doubt is about the long-term sustainability of their agressive pricing/incentives. Obviously they still rely on 0% and other incentives to move thier cars; 0% comes out of the launch pad or shortly after for their new models.
Hyundai is still associated with 0/60/72/84. How can that strategy drive an increase in resale value, I don't know?

Sure, anyone can make predictions, but they are just that...predictions; I wouldn't put too much weight on them.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 08:06:21 am by carcrazy »

Offline Turbo Bob

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2011, 06:54:15 am »
Like your predictions above, just there?

Offline carcrazy

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2011, 07:49:58 am »
Like your predictions above, just there?

Yep.

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #96 on: January 27, 2011, 08:57:31 am »
Hey, GM and Ford did it for decades (0 or next to 0% financing/leasing). I'm sure Hyundai is a lot more trim corporate wise than either of those two were in the past.

But you're right time will tell - personally I think they're already there and now you're going to see either a) the prices of the vehicles start to creep up to be closer to the competition and/or b) finance/lease rates climb.

As I've said before though I think they're fully justified in doing either or both. Now will the average consumer see it that way? THAT will be the interesting part. But still not much out there that's as well priced with the kind of warranty and reliability that Hyundai/Kia have been building up for years.

I do agree somewhat with your statement about "look where they started from". Its somewhat relevant - but look where they are now and how long it took them to get here. Pretty impressive IMO. Now why couldn't GM, Chrysler and Ford have done that with the vast resources they had?

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #97 on: January 27, 2011, 11:39:44 am »
Where were they 10 years ago? Easy to improve when you start from the very bottom.
easy to say "the only way they can go, is up", but many brands are "stuck" in the middle...while "climbing" may not have been much of a problem initially, getting to be among the top is certainly a testament to their achievements...if you look at the stats, there are a lot of established brands in the bottom quarter, and who have been there for the past 10 years...some of them aren't "cheap" either.

Quote
People buy cheap stuff in recession; Hyundai had the right product for the right price (incentives) at the right time.
no, when times are tight, people look more for value (which is one of Hyundai's strengths, and why they were set to do well during a recession)...that means, getting the features you need/want, good quality (because you can't afford unexpected repairs), and fair pricing.

Quote
This is not to minimize the merits of Hyundai and their new products; they are indeed good and very competitive, but I believe that the major challanges are ahead. If they continue to grow while the economy improves and the competition gets even tougher, then they are onto something.

i agree, the major challenges do lie ahead...however, if you look at where they are right now, and the products set to launch this year (along with the products recently launched as part of their current product line), they are looking very solid...their current line-up (and new models to be released) all include every safety feature as standard equipment in all trims, all vehicles are very good in terms of fuel economy (many often lead the segment), are nice looking and get strong praise for fit/finish and content, especially for the price (most people say they look/feel like they should be $10k MORE than they are)...with increased fuel economy guidelines coming in 2015, Hyundai is certainly a brand that is being recognized for investing in improvements in this area...lighter weights, newer technologies being used in this price of vehicles (DI, twin-scroll turbo, etc), more aerodynamic shapes, more efficient components in the vehicle (high efficiency alternators, etc), timing chains (to reduce maintenance costs down the road), etc...these are all things that Hyundai has done to set themselves up for continued success.

Quote
My doubt is about the long-term sustainability of their agressive pricing/incentives. Obviously they still rely on 0% and other incentives to move thier cars; 0% comes out of the launch pad or shortly after for their new models.
Hyundai is still associated with 0/60/72/84. How can that strategy drive an increase in resale value, I don't know?

resale is all relative...perhaps on the main reasons why brands like Toyota and Honda have such high resale amounts, is simply due to the REAL cost of purchasing them...sure, the Civic and Corolla were about the same MSRP (or similar) to a Cobalt or an Elantra, but where you could get the Cobalt or Elantra for 0/84, the Civic/Corolla was 5.9/60...that means you are spending thousands more for the Civic/Corolla, not because it is a "better car", but simply because the actual cost to buy the car was higher due to its interest rate...so, instead of getting that well equipped Cobalt or Elantra for $22k all in, the Civic/Corolla ends up being $26k due the difference in incentives...so, when you look at a 3 year old model and see the Cobalt and Elantra selling for $12k and the Civic selling for $16, in either case, you have "lost" $10k in value, but in the case of the Cobalt/Elantra, you only had to pay $22k instead of $26k for essentially the same thing...that extra "$4k" you are spending to by the Civic/Corolla isn't because of the "car", it is the cost the person who bought it paid for it...the selling is thinking, this car cost me $26k to buy, so my selling price is $16...the real losers are going to be brands like Toyota and Honda, who are now resorting to 0/60 offers to move cars, because people are catching on that their products aren't really as good as they were perceived to be (yes, they are still good) but people are paying more attention to real value, rather than perceived value.

Quote
Sure, anyone can make predictions, but they are just that...predictions; I wouldn't put too much weight on them.

that is the same with everything...but as i said, i will pay more for a better CAR, but not more just because it cost more to finance than another car that is equally as good.

Offline carcrazy

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #98 on: January 27, 2011, 11:48:32 am »
My point is that the public perception changes slowly in the positive direction and fast towards negative. This is true for any car company; just look at GM and Toyota. Why some think Hyundai is any different is what I'm questioning here.

Hyundai made continuous progress over the past decade and I don't deny that one bit.
The models launched in 2005-2006 just pulled them out of the bottom of the automotive barrel and put them on the map as "me-too" vehicles. 
2010/2011 made them strong contenders for the top. This is progress.

However, I believe the dynamics of the public perception is much slower than the product cycles.  Like I said, look at GM which is still perceived based on the cars and people’s experience from 10+ years ago. On the other hand, Toyota still rides on the reputation built in the ‘90s.

I think it will take at least another 5+ years of good product and continuous improvement for the vast majority of the buying public perception to change. Sure, a relatively small percentage of the public already realized that Hyundai makes great products today, but this is not enough to change the brand’s perception on the large scale.

Also, I think there is another important challenge for Hyundai as a global car manufacturer – they have no positive heritage in the auto industry unlike many other brands. It’s the first time for them when they make great cars. If people have memories about Hyundai, they are negative in general (Pony, Excel, etc). Have they ever made a truly great car before? Have they invented/innovated anything in this industry until 2010? I’m pretty sure the answer is “No” to both questions.

My 2 cents only… feel free to disagree.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 11:50:43 am by carcrazy »

Offline carcrazy

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Re: 2011 Hyundai Tucson Limited; Day 1
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2011, 11:53:40 am »
One more thing on the resale value aspect ... I think brand perception has a lot to do with the resale value; I believe even more than how good the car is.