Author Topic: Tire Pressure  (Read 1017 times)

Offline master

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Tire Pressure
« on: November 13, 2010, 02:55:25 am »
I have a Mazda Protege5.  The door jam says to inflate the tires to 33 PSI front and rear.  I just installed a new set of Continental Extremecontact DWS tires.  The tire shop said I should inflate it to 40 PSI for optimal handling and fuel economy.  I took his suggestion and the ride actually was not any worse than at 33 PSI.

Should I keep it at 33 or 40??

Offline tpl

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2010, 05:16:42 am »
33.   If you go to 40 psi the tire will not be flat across the tread and the tire will:
a) wear faster in the centre of the tread
b) not use all its width and therefore give less grip
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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2010, 06:36:56 am »
What kind of crappy tire shop would give poor advice like that?

Offline blur911

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 08:47:08 am »
If you were going to an autocross that's exactly the advice I'd give you for optimal wear and handling.  (assuming it isn't higher than the max. pressure rating on the sidewall)
For the street, it might be a tad high for comfort, depends on your priorities.
Personally I run most street tires at 36psi.

Offline capriracer

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 07:27:36 am »
If you've changed tire sizes, then the tire shop's advice might be right on.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010, 08:55:33 am »
Capriracer, is here a standard formula that one can use to determine proper air pressure based?   At a minimum I suspect the air volume, tread width and load rating of the tire need to be taken into account.

To the OP, what about reading the manual?  If you went to 15's you could look in the manual to see what tire pressure Mazda recommends for the Protege with the 15" wheels.

I run my winters are 32-34 (I thought my door jamb sticker said 32,  I'll check it out)
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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2010, 08:58:24 am »
Capriracer, is here a standard formula that one can use to determine proper air pressure based? 

Yes, it's called the door sticker.  ;D

Offline tortoise

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2010, 10:57:21 am »
I guess I forgot to add "when changing to tires that don't have OEM specifications".

Offline safristi

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 02:00:32 pm »
It is MY understanding that the DOOR STICKER PRESSURE # is INVIOLATE and is regardless of the TYRE used..................and I right or am I overinflating MY EGO ???
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline capriracer

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2010, 07:02:44 am »
Capriracer, is here a standard formula that one can use to determine proper air pressure based? 

Yes, it's called the door sticker.  ;D

The placard pressure applies for the same size regardless of who makes the tire.  The only exception to that is when you are dealing with a truck.

Trucks sometimes use "LT" type tires, and those are different than "P" type tires.  With a truck, you have to pay attention to the letters in front of and behind the tire size.

 - BUT -

If you change tire size, then there are a lot of permutations - too many to come up with a standard "formula".  But if you have to characterize what is involved, it is about load carrying capacity (Load Index) and at what pressure does the max capacity occur.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2010, 08:23:41 am »
And in general, does an increase in the Load Index correspond to a decrease in pressure, or vice versa?

Offline capriracer

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2010, 08:40:43 am »
And in general, does an increase in the Load Index correspond to a decrease in pressure, or vice versa?

This is but one of the permutations that leads to confusion.  I hesitate to answer your question directly because I know some folks will not remember this in its entirety - and that is important to do so.  But here goes:

1)  Standard Load on placard --> Standard Load for new tires:  If the Load Index goes down, the pressure goes up and vice versa.

2)  Extra Load on placard -->  Extra Load for new tires:  If the Load Index goes down, the pressure goes up and vice versa.

3)  Standard Load on placard -->  Extra Load for New tires:  This is where it hits the fan.

    a)  If the Load Index of the placard tire is the same as the new tires, then add 6 psi to the placard pressure.

    b)  If the Load Index of the placard tire is higher or lower than the new tires, then the pressure listed on the placard +6 psi goes the opposite direction.

4)  Extra Load on the placard -->  Standard Load for New tires:  More complication

    a)  If the Load Index is the same for both, then use the placard pressure minus 6 psi.

    b)  If the Load Index of the placard tire is higher or lower than the new tires, then the pressure listed on the placard minus 6 psi goes in the opposite direction.

If you have followed me this far, there are some other consideratons.

5)  If the resulting pressure for the new tires is less than 26 psi, my personal recommendation is to use 26 psi.  Inflation pressure helps hold the bead onto the rim, and there have been instances where severe manuevers have dis-lodged the bead.
 
    a)  Some tire manufacturers and others who give such recommendations say that you should not use anything lower than the placard pressure to maintain the original spring rate of the tire.  This is an attempt to minimize the affect on vehicle handling.

6)  Standard Load tires have a rated pressure of 35 psi (36 psi for metric based tires).  If the resulting pressure for the new tires is more than that, then you need either an Extra Load tire or a larger size.

    a)  Extra Load tires have a rated pressure of 41 psi (same for metric based tires).  If the resulting pressure for the new tires is more than that, then you need a larger size.

Please note:  What is written on the sidewall of the tire may not be the rated pressure.  The sidewall pressure would be the maximum usage pressure - and even then there are exceptions.

7)  The above applies only to the current metric sizing sytem - the one that looks like this:  P235/75R15.  There are older systems that are expressed differently and those systems may or may not work the same.  It is also possible that a future sizing system will be enough different that what I wrote above will not apply.

LT type tires are done similarly, but going between LT type tires and P type tires adds another layer of complexity.

As you can see, this is pretty complex - and I haven't even gotten into the mechanics of the calculation procedure  - but the short version is matching the load carrying capacity of the placard tire at the placard pressure - and that requires load tables.

I hope everyone who reads this realizes that this is not a simple, easy to remember thing.  Done incorrectly, you could be riding on dangerously under-inflated tires.  It would be better not to remember any of this, rather than remember it wrong.  Besides, you can always ask - you just have to be careful that the answer you get back is from someone who is an expert in the area.

 

Offline mrthompson

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2010, 09:32:10 am »
Thanks capriracer.  :o

IIRC, Ford recommended only 26 psi which contributed to the Explorer/Firestone debacle.  :shake:
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 03:13:49 pm by mrthompson »

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2010, 01:01:33 pm »
This is but one of the permutations that leads to confusion.  I hesitate to answer your question directly because I know some folks will not remember this in its entirety - and that is important to do so.  But here goes:

Very thorough explanation.  Are you employed in the tire industry?

Do those rules apply to truck tires only or passenger car tires as well?

Offline capriracer

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 08:42:39 am »
Very thorough explanation.  Are you employed in the tire industry?.........

I am a tire engineer with one of the majors.  I've worked in design, testing, and am currently in the warranty end of the business - and one of the things I do is answer questions from dealers and consumers.

Oh, and I used to call on Ford as a technical liason.  I was there when the Bronco II prototypes were relabeled Explorers - around 1990. 

.......Do those rules apply to truck tires only or passenger car tires as well?

The previous post was for passenger car tires.  Truck tires (meaing Light Truck, Medium Truck, and Heavy Truck tires) do not use Standard Load and Extra Load for load designations.  They use Load Range (which is a better way of expressing the old "Ply Rating" system - and I think the old PR system just leads to confusion about how many ply are actually in a tire).  But if you can apply the same principles outlined above for Truck Tires (in all their forms) once you take into account that you are dealing with Load Ranges.

If you want to learn a bit more, visit my web site:

http://www.barrystiretech.com/

It's for the more advanced and it explains the details for many of the questions I get frequently.

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Re: Tire Pressure
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2010, 09:25:51 am »
If you want to learn a bit more, visit my web site:

http://www.barrystiretech.com/

It's for the more advanced and it explains the details for many of the questions I get frequently.

I will visit the site.  Thanks!