Author Topic: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total  (Read 2238 times)

Offline rrocket

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2010, 11:37:57 pm »


Looks like break even is getting closer and closer. To early to predict anything, but wouldn't it be a kick if the respective governments ended up making a profit off the deal in the end.

Do we count the extra tax breaks in the total or not?? If you're talking about "in the end" that should include the gifted tax breaks...
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Offline Erik

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2010, 11:50:56 pm »


Looks like break even is getting closer and closer. To early to predict anything, but wouldn't it be a kick if the respective governments ended up making a profit off the deal in the end.

Do we count the extra tax breaks in the total or not?? If you're talking about "in the end" that should include the gifted tax breaks...

Was just thinking the share sale. Everyone, including here, figured that the government would lose it's shirt on the deal anyway. Anything close to break even is a HUGE success.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2010, 01:13:55 am »


Looks like break even is getting closer and closer. To early to predict anything, but wouldn't it be a kick if the respective governments ended up making a profit off the deal in the end.

Do we count the extra tax breaks in the total or not?? If you're talking about "in the end" that should include the gifted tax breaks...

Was just thinking the share sale. Everyone, including here, figured that the government would lose it's shirt on the deal anyway. Anything close to break even is a HUGE success.

What do you consider close??  Close to me is under $1 million....

But they're still talking a loss in the Billions...which isn't close and isn't counting the additional tax breaks...

Offline Erik

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2010, 01:54:18 pm »


Looks like break even is getting closer and closer. To early to predict anything, but wouldn't it be a kick if the respective governments ended up making a profit off the deal in the end.

Do we count the extra tax breaks in the total or not?? If you're talking about "in the end" that should include the gifted tax breaks...

Was just thinking the share sale. Everyone, including here, figured that the government would lose it's shirt on the deal anyway. Anything close to break even is a HUGE success.

What do you consider close??  Close to me is under $1 million....

But they're still talking a loss in the Billions...which isn't close and isn't counting the additional tax breaks...

Close to me would be a couple of billion. At this point, the bailout is already looking like a brilliant move. Even if the entire industry would not have pretty well crashed, the costs to the governments in lost revenues from taxes (not only GM directly, but employees, suppliers, even the guy driving the coffee truck), unemployment costs, retraining costs (turning a middle age employee making $30 an hour, into one working at a McDonalds making minimum wage) would have been much more than that. And sure, the US government may not make taxes directly off of GM for a while, but they sure will make taxes off everyone associated with GM - personal and corporate.

Offline TopGun

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2010, 05:40:19 pm »

Close to me would be a couple of billion.

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Offline rrocket

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2010, 03:21:33 pm »

Close to me would be a couple of billion. At this point, the bailout is already looking like a brilliant move. Even if the entire industry would not have pretty well crashed, the costs to the governments in lost revenues from taxes (not only GM directly, but employees, suppliers, even the guy driving the coffee truck), unemployment costs, retraining costs (turning a middle age employee making $30 an hour, into one working at a McDonalds making minimum wage) would have been much more than that. And sure, the US government may not make taxes directly off of GM for a while, but they sure will make taxes off everyone associated with GM - personal and corporate.

I've heard that rumor/myth, but have never seen any numbers to prove it.  Depending on whose numbers we're using for the total bailout number to GM, we're talking on the order of $60 billion. 

In Canada, our bailout represent about $1 million per GM worker.

Offline neil

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2010, 03:52:36 pm »
Quote
The price range was "a little bit light" relative to his expectations for $35 or $40 a share, Rattner said in a Nov. 4 interview on Bloomberg Television.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101115/AUTO01/11150390/Rattner-says-GM-s-IPO-may-price-higher-than-$29-a-share#ixzz15O1ep7Xy

up she goes!

Offline neil

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2010, 10:48:29 am »
Quote
A confident General Motors has added 20 million shares of preferred stock to its initial public offering, and it raised the estimated price range for common shares by about 14 per cent to US$32 to $33.

Offline TopGun

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2010, 09:09:14 am »
Intervention saves federal government $28.6 billion in 2009 and 2010

The net impact to the federal government—in terms of changes in transfer payments, social security receipts and personal income taxes—was $21.6 billion in 2009 and $7.0 billion in 2010.

“To date, $13.4 billion in principal has been repaid on the government’s $80 billion U.S. investment in the automotive industry. This study shows that $28.6 billion in net losses to the U.S. Treasury were averted by the policy to provide federal assistance to General Motors and Chrysler,” said Sean McAlinden, executive vice president of research and chief economist at CAR. “With this in mind, CAR’s analysis shows the government need only recover $38 billion of the remaining $66.6 billion outstanding investment in this industry to achieve a two-year break-even.”


http://www.cargroup.org/pdfs/prnov2010.pdf

Oh...CAR receives it's funding from the Federal Government...so this can be complete ignored.

Offline Erik

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #69 on: November 21, 2010, 12:58:29 pm »
Intervention saves federal government $28.6 billion in 2009 and 2010



Oh...CAR receives it's funding from the Federal Government...so this can be complete ignored.

LOL It will be!

Offline TopGun

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2010, 03:25:31 pm »
Intervention saves federal government $28.6 billion in 2009 and 2010



Oh...CAR receives it's funding from the Federal Government...so this can be complete ignored.

LOL It will be!

It already has.  I rest my case.

CatsEye68

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2010, 06:17:07 pm »
Intervention saves federal government $28.6 billion in 2009 and 2010



Oh...CAR receives it's funding from the Federal Government...so this can be complete ignored.

LOL It will be!

It already has.  I rest my case.


Doesn't mean its wrong. Even in places like this that have obvious biases, sometimes even the artics and their ilk post stuff that is correct. It just means you have to look closely at the facts behind what they say.

Offline rrocket

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Re: GM: Extra Pork in the Bailout Total
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2010, 06:22:38 pm »
Intervention saves federal government $28.6 billion in 2009 and 2010



Oh...CAR receives it's funding from the Federal Government...so this can be complete ignored.

LOL It will be!

It's also funded by the unions too....