Topic: Best Winter Tires? :)

[Guy]

Sorry, I have not driven on either the Hankook's or the Yoko's. Heard good comments on the Yoko's however.

[dr_spock]

You can get X-ICE 2 with steel wheels for about $823 installed plus tax around here plus $70 rebate
195 65 15

How long have you had the X-ice 2?   How do they perform over time? 

[KptKrunch]

Being in Quebec City winter tires here are a must, not an option. We have 6 months per year where you may end up with snow on the road.

I bought Toyo Observe G02+ for the Volvo last year and I have to say that I am quite disappointed with them. The side wall of those tires is extremely soft so don't even think about somewhat spirited driving on dry roads with them, (hey most of the time the roads are on dry asphalt, even in winter!) They will let go very early on dry asphalt. They are ok on ice, snow and slush but not great. The Nokians I have on the Tucson and the Gislaved 5 on the TL are far superior tires in all conditions in my opinion, specially if you want to push it a little bit in the corners on a dry road.

The General Altimax are identical to the old Gislaved 3 that I use to have on the Volvo. Continental who owns General also owns Gislaved. They were excellent tires.

No more Toyo's for me when the current set wear out.

Hey Guy - thanks very much for that post! I had it narrowed down to the Yokohama IG20's and the Toyo Observe GO2. Though I'm still pondering the Hankook 409 IPIKE's. The Hankooks can save me about $100 or so. The new car I have cannot be downsized in rims due to the large rotors, though like Dkaz says I'll explore a thinner tire with a slight higher profile, though that scares me a bit as the tire with more sidewall may affect performance. And like Guy says, a lot of driving in the winter is on bare dry (but very cold) roads.

So, thanks to Guy, I'm crossing off the Toyo's. The Nokians I hear are very soft and need to come off pronto (the hakki's) when it starts to warm up, though I guess the same could be said for the Yoko's.

The Ipike strike is that it is has a directional tread, which does not perform well when reversing (though it's not the end of the world as I don't really drive around backwards).

So, I think I'll go with the Yoko's. For those that care - at Kal tire I can get the Yokos installed for $980.61 cents all in for the size I need. This is before the rims as I haven't decided 100% what rims I want.

Another place gave me a much better price on the tire, $968.40 all in though in the end which includes installation (as the Kal Tire price does). So, I save a whopping $12.21. But come spring, Kal Tire will swap out the tires for free (and for every subsequent swap) plus they will do free rotations. The other place will charge me $25.00 each turn around. So all of a sudden, Kal tire is cheap in the long run.

And I've gone to several different places. The next best price is $940 for Toyo's (but that's now off my list) and again I'd need to pay for each switch out (about $25.00 again).

So I don't know where all this "Kal tire is expensive" stuff is coming from. I feel they are no more expensive then anywhere else when comparing apples to apples, and with the free rotations/changeovers, IMO they're actually cheaper. So, that's the way I'm going, unless I decide to get the Hankooks.

Guy - any opinions on Hankooks vs. Yokohama Ice Guard IG20's?

Kal Tire is pricey as per my example:

$2400 Kal Tire. $1600 Online Tire Site.. I change wheels in my driveway in 1/2 the time that it would take me to drive to KalTire.

That's a significant saving. If I could get the Yoko's for $800 less on line I'd be all over it. I can't. The Yoko's from 1010 tire would be $799.96 (Free shipping), same tires from Kal would be $828.88 + $76 for installation, so lets call it $900. I'd have to get the 1010 tires installed and I'll go with my dealers price of $25 per so that's a wash. I guess I must be dumb but I've tried 6 different tire shops here and the best deal I have is for I*Pikes at $180 / tire all in or $720. The Yoko's would be $940.00 from the same place. Tire Rack doesn't have the Yoko's but the savings I'd enjoy from them is pretty much all used up in the shipping charges.

That $1600 on line tires site - that is your all in price (taxes, shipping, etc?) or was that before shipping.

As for installing on your driveway - yep, that's the best way to do it for sure. But if Kal does it for free, I can go do other things like work (as my office isn't all that far away - walking distance) and if anything at all happens to the tire I should have zero issues for a warranty claim.

[KptKrunch]

The Hankook I*pikes are studdable. The Yokohama IG20 are not.

The I*Pikes have a similar tread pattern to other tires including the General Altimax Arctics and others.

Dave

Yep, but unless you're driving on backroads consistently that are never plowed, studs IMO are useless. Most city and hwy driving is done on cold, dry pavement except for during and immediately after a snow fall. Studs are noisy and not as good as rubber on dry pavement so that doesn't matter to me.

The General Altimax don't make a tire in the size I need (I've checked those out already). I was also looking at the Continental ExtremeWinterContacts but same issue, tire size.

Yoko's, Toyo's, Hankooks, and Nokians are probably my best options for the right tire size. With Nokians too expensive (relative to what you get - what I mean is I don't think they are that much better than Yoko's with the price difference) and the Toyo's getting a few mixed reviews (there's a post on 1010 reviews that says it's the worst winter tire ever for one driver - pretty strong words IMO) yet the APA has them as a top pick. So who do I believe?

[KptKrunch]

Sorry, I have not driven on either the Hankook's or the Yoko's. Heard good comments on the Yoko's however.

No worries -I have the Yoko Geolander Winters for my Pathfinder last year and they were great except for on glare ice (I would slip on that even in 4wd). However, they chewed through snow like the snow wasn't even there with very little sideways movement even when pushing it. The Hankooks are rated higher on 1010 tire, I think. I say that because though the site says there are a 4.4 with "98" customer reviews, when you go to read them it says "THere are no customer reviews for this item" so where are these so called 'reviews'? So even though the Hankooks are 'cheaper' the Yoko's are a known commodity to me and I have a decent customer review database to look at.

What is the most popular Winter Tire in Quebec?

[airbalancer]

You can get X-ICE 2 with steel wheels for about $823 installed plus tax around here plus $70 rebate
195 65 15

How long have you had the X-ice 2?   How do they perform over time? 

Never had them
Will be going on the Prius around mid Nov

[stodge]

Sorry, I have not driven on either the Hankook's or the Yoko's. Heard good comments on the Yoko's however.

No worries -I have the Yoko Geolander Winters for my Pathfinder last year and they were great except for on glare ice (I would slip on that even in 4wd). However, they chewed through snow like the snow wasn't even there with very little sideways movement even when pushing it. The Hankooks are rated higher on 1010 tire, I think. I say that because though the site says there are a 4.4 with "98" customer reviews, when you go to read them it says "THere are no customer reviews for this item" so where are these so called 'reviews'? So even though the Hankooks are 'cheaper' the Yoko's are a known commodity to me and I have a decent customer review database to look at.

What is the most popular Winter Tire in Quebec?

I saw the same problem - I was looking at tyres on 1010 and it would say 50 reviews, but when I clicked, there were no reviews. Buggy site.

[Angry Chicken]

I maintain that Nokians are the best winter tires out there for the money.  No, they're not cheap, and yes there are a lot of bright-eyed Nokian cultists out there but since when is price the only thing that defines value?

I can speak to over 20 years of experience with these quality Finnish-made winter tires and can say without hesitation that I will never buy anything else.  I've read all the reviews of the new Blizzak and X-ice tires, etc., and, though tempted, haven't made the switch.

A cheap person knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.  It drives me crazy when people (and I'm not talking about forum members, btw) will nickle-and-dime their purchase of tires, but blow a wad of cash on an entertainment system.  The expression is "when the rubber meets the road" for a reason.  That little contact patch is often the difference between safety and disaster.

[ktm525]

I maintain that Nokians are the best winter tires out there for the money.  No, they're not cheap, and yes there are a lot of bright-eyed Nokian cultists out there but since when is price the only thing that defines value?

I can speak to over 20 years of experience with these quality Finnish-made winter tires and can say without hesitation that I will never buy anything else.  I've read all the reviews of the new Blizzak and X-ice tires, etc., and, though tempted, haven't made the switch.

A cheap person knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.  It drives me crazy when people (and I'm not talking about forum members, btw) will nickle-and-dime their purchase of tires, but blow a wad of cash on an entertainment system.  The expression is "when the rubber meets the road" for a reason.  That little contact patch is often the difference between safety and disaster.

Perhaps Nokians are best and perhaps not. Some Euro tests had Nokians finishing (no pun intended) mid pack of tires reviewed. Also conditions very widely. For instance here in Calgary I am more interested in ice traction and not too concerned with deep snow performance.

[Angry Chicken]

I maintain that Nokians are the best winter tires out there for the money.  No, they're not cheap, and yes there are a lot of bright-eyed Nokian cultists out there but since when is price the only thing that defines value?

I can speak to over 20 years of experience with these quality Finnish-made winter tires and can say without hesitation that I will never buy anything else.  I've read all the reviews of the new Blizzak and X-ice tires, etc., and, though tempted, haven't made the switch.

A cheap person knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.  It drives me crazy when people (and I'm not talking about forum members, btw) will nickle-and-dime their purchase of tires, but blow a wad of cash on an entertainment system.  The expression is "when the rubber meets the road" for a reason.  That little contact patch is often the difference between safety and disaster.

Perhaps Nokians are best and perhaps not. Some Euro tests had Nokians finishing (no pun intended) mid pack of tires reviewed. Also conditions very widely. For instance here in Calgary I am more interested in ice traction and not too concerned with deep snow performance.

Yes.  My mini-review (link in one of the other posts in the thread) noted that my Nokian RSi's which are mounted on my Mazda3 GT Sport weren't really a deep snow tire, but were great on hard pack and ice.  That's probably the most typical winter condition most people face nowadays, unless of course you live out in the sticks or at the end of a logging road.

I like the Nokians but I'm not blind to the fact that other manufacturers have finally caught up to Nokian in many areas.  Until Bridgestone introduced the Blizzak most of us North Americaners were OK with all-seasons in the winter.  Even though they really weren't OK!

[davidy]

Finally getting my General Altimax Arctic studded and mounted on Ford rims this coming week. Bought them in early 2010, but never installed them since the winter was so mild.

Dave

[KptKrunch]

On the G8 Kal Tire wanted almost $2400 to outfit the G8 in wheels and Nitto winter rubber. I got them elsewhere online  for under $1600k. Kal Tire is spendy.

How are those Nitto's? I just checked them out at your favorite place . I'm getting a price of $212.97 - $10 rebate / tire from them (the SN2's). Can't find a lot of reviews on them but, from what  gather, Nitto is a division/subsidiary of Toyo and they have crushed walnut shells in them, just like the Toyo Observe GO2's. Different tread pattern though (especially that continuous center rib in the Nittos).

But back to your fav place, while researching the Nittos, I stumbled across another place here locally to check out. I didn't ask if they had Nittos but I priced out Blizzaks WS70's, Toyo Observe GO2, Yokohama Ice Guard IG20's, and Firestone Winterforce. I was quoted $203, $205, $204, and $170 respectively, that's all in but taxed (5%) and the $16 ($4 / tire) tire levy. So for the Yokohama's, I'd be saving $125.41 over Kal Tire if I go with the Yok's. I can make an appointment actually (that's very important to me), I can get alloy rims (IMO not quite as nice as ones I was looking at from Kal but pretty nice just the same) for $28 cheaper as well (for all 4 tires, or $7 each - not much but it's still $28 in my pocket).

So, that is the best price I've gotten so far. Not sure if I'll be able to beat that here without ordering on line.

A cheap person knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.  It drives me crazy when people (and I'm not talking about forum members, btw) will nickle-and-dime their purchase of tires,

Yes, I agree. But at the same time if you can save $100, why not? Unfortunately, Kal Tire has Exclusivity on the Nokians (at least here they do), and to add to add a bit to what ktm said, not only do they (sometimes) finish in the middle of the pack of some tests, but they also finish in the the middle of the pack for price - in EUROPE. In fact, they are not regarded as a high end tire there, but rather an economical one. Yet for some reason here, they are considered to be high end. The quote I got from Kal today on the Hakki R was $267.07 / tire with no rebate, or $1048.28, plus $124 for install/balance, $13.80 for the stems, for a total of $1245.38 including taxes, or $372.58 more than the Yokohama's. That's 43% more = crazy. There's no way the Nokian's are a 43% better tire than the Yokohama.

[sailor723]

You guys need to move closer to the border. If you can eliminate UPS's huge shipping fees to Canada (and their "brokerage" fees) the choice of where to buy tires becomes much easier.

[Angry Chicken]

I haven't bought Nokians for 3 years now.  I wonder if the prices have gone up that much?  They were about 15-20% more than equivalent premium brand like Michelin and Bridgestone when I bought my last 2 sets of 4.  I buy mine from a Mazda dealer in East Ottawa who still has a distributor agreement w/ Nokian.  They'll ship anywhere.

Also, there are newer model Nokians than the ones that I have.  I wonder how they fare against the X-Ice2 and Blizzaks now.  I'll have to check those test results.  I have to buy 2 new sets of tires next winter so it's time to do a bit of homework.  My loyalty to the Nokian brand hasn't made me stupid.

[ktm525]

On the G8 Kal Tire wanted almost $2400 to outfit the G8 in wheels and Nitto winter rubber. I got them elsewhere online  for under $1600k. Kal Tire is spendy.

How are those Nitto's? I just checked them out at your favorite place . I'm getting a price of $212.97 - $10 rebate / tire from them (the SN2's). Can't find a lot of reviews on them but, from what  gather, Nitto is a division/subsidiary of Toyo and they have crushed walnut shells in them, just like the Toyo Observe GO2's. Different tread pattern though (especially that continuous center rib in the Nittos).

But back to your fav place, while researching the Nittos, I stumbled across another place here locally to check out. I didn't ask if they had Nittos but I priced out Blizzaks WS70's, Toyo Observe GO2, Yokohama Ice Guard IG20's, and Firestone Winterforce. I was quoted $203, $205, $204, and $170 respectively, that's all in but taxed (5%) and the $16 ($4 / tire) tire levy. So for the Yokohama's, I'd be saving $125.41 over Kal Tire if I go with the Yok's. I can make an appointment actually (that's very important to me), I can get alloy rims (IMO not quite as nice as ones I was looking at from Kal but pretty nice just the same) for $28 cheaper as well (for all 4 tires, or $7 each - not much but it's still $28 in my pocket).

So, that is the best price I've gotten so far. Not sure if I'll be able to beat that here without ordering on line.

A cheap person knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.  It drives me crazy when people (and I'm not talking about forum members, btw) will nickle-and-dime their purchase of tires,

Yes, I agree. But at the same time if you can save $100, why not? Unfortunately, Kal Tire has Exclusivity on the Nokians (at least here they do), and to add to add a bit to what ktm said, not only do they (sometimes) finish in the middle of the pack of some tests, but they also finish in the the middle of the pack for price - in EUROPE. In fact, they are not regarded as a high end tire there, but rather an economical one. Yet for some reason here, they are considered to be high end. The quote I got from Kal today on the Hakki R was $267.07 / tire with no rebate, or $1048.28, plus $124 for install/balance, $13.80 for the stems, for a total of $1245.38 including taxes, or $372.58 more than the Yokohama's. That's 43% more = crazy. There's no way the Nokian's are a 43% better tire than the Yokohama.

Kal also has some sort of deal on Nittos. They are exclusive on the Nitto SN2. My brother ran them on a G8 GT last winter and swears by them. He said no issues with traction and that is saying something on a high power RWD car.

[KptKrunch]

Kal also has some sort of deal on Nittos. They are exclusive on the Nitto SN2. My brother ran them on a G8 GT last winter and swears by them. He said no issues with traction and that is saying something on a high power RWD car.

Hmmmmmmm, interesting comment. I haven't been able to find a lot of info on the tires, the guy at Kal tire who pointed me to them pretty much said the same thing though (it was a cousin of his) that ran them and swears by them. I guess my thing here is I want something that is very capable on ice and snow but can also do well at highway speeds (nothing crazy - 120 km/h is about as fast as I drive in the winter, but that includes around bend marked as '80 km/h' though maybe I'd slow to 110 or so) on a dry (cold) road.

Thanks for the info!

[onearmed]

I haven't read any of this thread but I'm a bit disappointed in the x-ice snow performance.  My dunlop m2s were much better in snow than these.  I find I slide and lock up a bit to much on snow and slush compared to the m2s.

[ktm525]

I haven't read any of this thread but I'm a bit disappointed in the x-ice snow performance.  My dunlop m2s were much better in snow than these.  I find I slide and lock up a bit to much on snow and slush compared to the m2s.

Who would of thought with a tire named X-ice. They didn't call them x-snow.

[X-Traction]

Blizzaks issue (for me) is they do not perform well on dry pavement (and when it gets really cold out there is a lot of dry pavement in between snow storms) so I need a winter tire that can hold the road on dry at highway speeds. Plus, Blizzaks only last about 2 winters, once the tread is down 55% the special compound is gone and they are now just an all season tire.

People keep saying over and over that the Blizzak has ordinary tread compound under the special winter compound.  I keep responding over and over that the DMZ-3 has regular WINTER compound under the special compound.  I don't know about other Blizzak models.

The other thing that determines traction later in a tire's life is how deep the sipes go.  The deeper the sipes, the more squirmy the tread blocks will be and the better the traction.  Given the DMZ-3's deeper original tread, and deep sipes, it's no wonder it feels looser when cornering hard than some other winter tires. 

Bear in mind that aggressive cornering is what wears out winter tires.  Even a soft compound can roll along in a straight line and close to posted cornering speeds forever.  Basically one has to decide whether one wants a winter tire or a performance tire.

Oh, and our Blizzaks are 2 winters old now, and have lost only 1/32" of their 14/32" depth.

[KptKrunch]

Blizzaks issue (for me) is they do not perform well on dry pavement (and when it gets really cold out there is a lot of dry pavement in between snow storms) so I need a winter tire that can hold the road on dry at highway speeds. Plus, Blizzaks only last about 2 winters, once the tread is down 55% the special compound is gone and they are now just an all season tire.

People keep saying over and over that the Blizzak has ordinary tread compound under the special winter compound.  I keep responding over and over that the DMZ-3 has regular WINTER compound under the special compound.  I don't know about other Blizzak models.

The other thing that determines traction later in a tire's life is how deep the sipes go.  The deeper the sipes, the more squirmy the tread blocks will be and the better the traction.  Given the DMZ-3's deeper original tread, and deep sipes, it's no wonder it feels looser when cornering hard than some other winter tires. 

Bear in mind that aggressive cornering is what wears out winter tires.  Even a soft compound can roll along in a straight line and close to posted cornering speeds forever.  Basically one has to decide whether one wants a winter tire or a performance tire.

Oh, and our Blizzaks are 2 winters old now, and have lost only 1/32" of their 14/32" depth.

That's what the Kal Tire guy was showing me with the Nitto's. I never really had thought of that before - I had just assumed most tires at certain $ values were the same in terms of sipe depth. Obviously not.

As for the Blizzaks - I have no experience with them, only going by reviews. Mostly pro reviews that have said they only have a 55% tread life. Like you though I have no idea which tire (all of them, some of them) pertain too.

But the Nitto's are also "T" rated as are the OEM tires so that's important to me as well. Not that I race on them or anything, and the WS70's are also "T" rated. I would think that a "T" rated tire would not feel like jello on sharp turns on the road.