Topic: Ford vs chevy

[aknutson]

With the new pricing incentives on the current-gen Cobalt SS I almost parked one in my driveway - despite having an embarassingly plasticky interior, the car itself is just awesome and for sure the performance bargain of the decade. Around a track it will outpace cars costing two or three times the price, and on the road there is an impressive balance of road comfort, daily drivability and outright performance..
....

Take the extra $$ that you'll save buying one of these (as no one wants them apparently) and put it into a custom interior.

http://www.diamondtrim.com/classic.html

These guys that can turn your interior into whatever you want it to be.  They'll take that "plasticky" interior and cover it leather or Alcantara for you if you wish - dash, steering wheels, seats, headliners, etc...

Wow, that's actually a pretty cool company. Alcantara would be sweeeeeet. But yeah, the factory interior is about the only thing wrong with the car off the factory floor, which can be remedied to some degree.

[Careener]

Well..the interior AND the nasty spoiler.

[rrocket]

With the new pricing incentives on the current-gen Cobalt SS I almost parked one in my driveway - despite having an embarassingly plasticky interior, the car itself is just awesome and for sure the performance bargain of the decade. Around a track it will outpace cars costing two or three times the price, and on the road there is an impressive balance of road comfort, daily drivability and outright performance..
....

Take the extra $$ that you'll save buying one of these (as no one wants them apparently) and put it into a custom interior.

http://www.diamondtrim.com/classic.html

These guys that can turn your interior into whatever you want it to be.  They'll take that "plasticky" interior and cover it leather or Alcantara for you if you wish - dash, steering wheels, seats, headliners, etc...

Except by the time they're done, the interior is worth more than the rest of the car.

I knew someone in the US who did an interior in Alcantara and it was almost $10K....

[TopGun]

Except by the time they're done, the interior is worth more than the rest of the car.

I knew someone in the US who did an interior in Alcantara and it was almost $10K....

Well sure...lots of material choices out there.  I'd likely leave the seats alone...those are Recaros aren't they?

[Vmango]

The Recaro option in Cobalt SS/SC was discontinued part way through 2006. In fact, my 2007 SS/SC was one of the very few 2007 SS/SC to get the seats. I know it sounds funny but I would not have bought the car without that option (Recaro seats and limited slip). The factory stage packages was the other KEY feature for buying the car.

I'm a Chevy guy and as such would have a hard time buying a Ford even if it was better (case and point Mustang).

If I buy American again, it's going to be a Caddy or that Regal GNX (if it ever comes out).

But - in five years who knows what product these companies will offer.

Maybe I'll keep the REX as a beater and build a ZO6 beast. 

[Erik]

Hmm.
A Cobalt SS with a nice quality interior? Interesting thought. Lots of fun AND comfortable.

Did they sell the turbocharged Cobalt as a four door up here?

[initial_D]

Well..the interior AND the nasty spoiler.

Hang some ladies lingerie on that clothes hanger will make it more attractive. 

Do like the specs and performance numbers on the Cobalt SS.

[aknutson]

Well..the interior AND the nasty spoiler.

Hang some ladies lingerie on that clothes hanger will make it more attractive. 

Do like the specs and performance numbers on the Cobalt SS.

That's the thing that most impressed me is the numbers - it's like someone at GM really cared about making this a legitimate performer. I forget the mag where I read the article but this thing was faster around a track than a Lexus IS-F, amongst a host of other impressive cars like the Dodge Challenger SRT8 and Subaru WRX STI. For a current price of $23K CAD, I can live with a plastic interior. I can just imagine the guys face in the uber-manly Dodge when he loses a drag to a turbocharged Cobalt, 

[TopGun]

....
Did they sell the turbocharged Cobalt as a four door up here?

I thought I saw some on a lot somewhere...looked kinda weird...totally unassuming.

.....For a current price of $23K CAD, I can live with a plastic interior.
.....

You're just talking crazy talk now...c'mon.  Plastic quality rules here man!!!!   

Someone else might now say the 'Vette is a bargain...geez...

[Giant Dwarf]

Funny, with the "employee pricing" deals on the Camaro now, the SS's interior doesn't seem so bad to me on a "low-30s" car as it did on a $40k car with that kind of performance.  Been meaning to get out to drive one but haven't found the time yet.

Still would love a five-point-oh though. 

[Ice]

I'm not a loyalist to any car company so I'll consider anything on the block for my next purchase or recommending purchases to others. It depends on how good the cars are and how good a reputation for quality and reliability a car company can build with me (based on whatever data I can find both scientific and more anecdotal).

So right now... Ford is starting to fly much higher in my books. The 2010 Fusion was really the start for me. A great turn around from a average offering in a very competitive segment to a solid competitor and that was without a full redesign. The new Focus and the announcement that the C-MAX was coming here are all positive signs.  I even like what they are doing with the F-150 (but I'm not a truck guy) and the whole EcoBoost thing is great (although I loved the TwinForce marketing as well).  Fusion has top reliability marks from CR which is great news... they seem to have gotten things together.

Chevy... starting to look much better in my mind although they have further to come. We rented an Impala (it was probably a 08) a year ago and I was not impressed (at least it was quiet if not roomy or fast) and my friend has an Ion that has had tons of things go wrong on it.  But that is old GM.  The Malibu looks good inside and out and the Cruze and Equinox are both good looking and they say that they are well put together.  I can't remember the latest reports but it seems that on the whole they seem to have things together now as well.

The proof is in the follow through and if they can keep things up. They both cut too many corners and were too focused on big money rather than solid reputations. I remain optimistic.

[aknutson]

...They both cut too many corners and were too focused on big money rather than solid reputations. I remain optimistic...

That and the fact that old GM/Ford used to throw SUV's and trucks at us instead of considering more reasonable transportation. The turnaround is because we are starting to see some European models, where the design and functionality of most of the vehicles isn't based around a 3-ton body-on-frame layout. As you said the new C-Max, Fiesta, 2012 Focus...even the Transit, all European models. This is good for us because while we still have the trucks for those who want them, there is a lot more competitive offerings in the sedan/hatchback segment.

The best thing that happened to Ford and Chevy is the fact that everyone else (especially the Korean automakers) are raising the bar. If you own the home market there is no incentive to make things better, but when people are going in droves to Hyundai, Honda, Toyota and Nissan dealers, you have to up your game to stay competitive. Look at the new Cadillacs, the new Buicks, worlds ahead of where they were even a couple of years ago. The new Mustang is excellent, as is the Fusion. Good to see! I'm positive as well...

[TopGun]

That and the fact that old GM/Ford used to throw SUV's and trucks at us instead of considering more reasonable transportation.
...

No one faults BMW for chasing the money...and that's exactly what GM and Ford did as people were buying these truck based SUVs like crazy.  "Reasonable" was determined by the market...a definition that changed quickly thanks to some expensive gasoline.  The imports were fortunate that their domestic markets always demanded reasonable transportation.

The error, in my view, was not investing those profits into diversifying the platform.  Even then, kinda tough to get approval...picture this many years ago when Lincoln Navigators were everywhere:

Auto Exec:  We're taking X billion dollars and putting it into small cars.
Board:  What?  Are you crazy?  What's the profit margin on our Navigator
Auto Exec:  About $15,000
Board:  And what's the profit margin on our last small car?
Auto Exec:  $5,000
Board:  You moron...why would you invest in small cars?
Auto Exec:  Because higher fuel prices are coming...some time.
Board:  Well, unless you can tell me when, and what the impact will be, you can't prove your point.  We have to protect our stock price you know.
Auto Exec: Yes Sir.
Board: Next!!!

[Vmango]

^^ +1

[aknutson]

That and the fact that old GM/Ford used to throw SUV's and trucks at us instead of considering more reasonable transportation.
...

...
The error, in my view, was not investing those profits into diversifying the platform.  Even then, kinda tough to get approval...

Yes, I'm taking this point out of your post and emphasizing it because you're absolutely right. Saying you make massive profits on Navigators so that's all you'll build is just idiotic, you're basically necessitating $2/gallon gas and large income families forever. The import brands filled the niche of providing small, efficient transportation because it was a gap that the Domestics created for themselves - if we had the 2012 Ford lineup back in 2004, half the people who rushed to buy Civics and Yari would have stayed in their domestic dealership. If you walked in to Toyota, whether it's now or 5 years ago, you could always get a Tundra, Sequoia, Corolla or Yaris...they had the diversity to fulfill all potential customers.

And you say it was 'the market' that demanded trucks, but I wouldn't necessarily say this is completely true. If you had $30K and walked into a Ford dealership in the early 2000's, the Taurus was garbage, and the Five Hundred was decent but underpowered. The Focus was nothing to write home about, and while I liked the Fusion, it never sold all that well. So why would someone buy a family sedan when they can get an F-150 crew-cab for the same price? That was the mentality they were pushing - just buy a truck! Forget about the 15 mpg, gas is cheap. Today, the Ford Taurus looks great inside and out, and the Fusion is an award winner. The 2012 Focus looks to bring a new level of refinement to the class, and the Fiesta looks like a lot of fun too. And guess what's happening now that there is variety? People are buying sedans again.

Limiting options and pigeonholing loyal domestic shoppers may be the free market we're all after, but it sure didn't help GM/Ford/Dodge when gas went up and so did people's mortgages. It's like saying people choose Windows because it's the best OS and the market demands it...well, not necessarily, there just isn't a lot of options.

[Erik]

That and the fact that old GM/Ford used to throw SUV's and trucks at us instead of considering more reasonable transportation.
...

...
The error, in my view, was not investing those profits into diversifying the platform.  Even then, kinda tough to get approval...

Yes, I'm taking this point out of your post and emphasizing it because you're absolutely right. Saying you make massive profits on Navigators so that's all you'll build is just idiotic, you're basically necessitating $2/gallon gas and large income families forever. The import brands filled the niche of providing small, efficient transportation because it was a gap that the Domestics created for themselves - if we had the 2012 Ford lineup back in 2004, half the people who rushed to buy Civics and Yari would have stayed in their domestic dealership. If you walked in to Toyota, whether it's now or 5 years ago, you could always get a Tundra, Sequoia, Corolla or Yaris...they had the diversity to fulfill all potential customers.

And you say it was 'the market' that demanded trucks, but I wouldn't necessarily say this is completely true. If you had $30K and walked into a Ford dealership in the early 2000's, the Taurus was garbage, and the Five Hundred was decent but underpowered. The Focus was nothing to write home about, and while I liked the Fusion, it never sold all that well. So why would someone buy a family sedan when they can get an F-150 crew-cab for the same price? That was the mentality they were pushing - just buy a truck! Forget about the 15 mpg, gas is cheap. Today, the Ford Taurus looks great inside and out, and the Fusion is an award winner. The 2012 Focus looks to bring a new level of refinement to the class, and the Fiesta looks like a lot of fun too. And guess what's happening now that there is variety? People are buying sedans again.

Limiting options and pigeonholing loyal domestic shoppers may be the free market we're all after, but it sure didn't help GM/Ford/Dodge when gas went up and so did people's mortgages. It's like saying people choose Windows because it's the best OS and the market demands it...well, not necessarily, there just isn't a lot of options.

Take a look at US vehicle sales in 2000. If I remember correctly either 7 or 8 of the top ten selling vehicles were trucks. The number 2 selling vehicle (the full size GM pickups) outsold all the cars in the top ten list combined. Of course, the number 1 selling vehicle was the Ford F Series pickup trucks.
Don't forget, in a lot of places in the US, gas was selling well under $1 a gallon. 9/11 was no ones worst nightmare yet, nor could anyone imagine that the US govt would do something as stupid as invading Iraq and choking off a good chunk of the worlds oil supply.

[neil]

Well..the interior AND the nasty spoiler.

Hang some ladies lingerie on that clothes hanger will make it more attractive. 

Do like the specs and performance numbers on the Cobalt SS.

That's the thing that most impressed me is the numbers - it's like someone at GM really cared about making this a legitimate performer. I forget the mag where I read the article but this thing was faster around a track than a Lexus IS-F, amongst a host of other impressive cars like the Dodge Challenger SRT8 and Subaru WRX STI. For a current price of $23K CAD, I can live with a plastic interior. I can just imagine the guys face in the uber-manly Dodge when he loses a drag to a turbocharged Cobalt, 

They aren't as much fun as those cars, especially a rwd/ awd combo, but generally for the $ it's hard to beat.

The no-lift-shift feature is pretty cool.

[paulsplumbinghvac]

I'll go for Ford 

[warhorse20000]

I kinda Like ford Myself vs :     Com on com on you can do it , all righty (starts) dashing throw the snow in my rusty chevrolete , down the road i go Sliding all the way, i need new piston rings , i need new snow tires my car is held together by a paiece of chicken wire ,  Oh , Rust & smoke the heaters broke the door just flew away , i lite a match on the dash , than i start to prey yaaa, the frame is bent the muffler when the radio its ok , oh what fun it is to drive a chevrolette , i whent to the iga to get some cheer , i just pass up my left front tire and its getting hard to steer, Skidding  down the hwy passing the pumps i had to drag my swampers to get the car to stop,oh rust and smoke the heaters broke the door just flew away, oh what fun it is to drive a chev today,  bounceing throught the snowdrifts in a big Blue cloud of Smoke, ppl laff as i drive by i wonder whats the joke, oh what fun it is to drive a chevrolette 


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